From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: "whether the global keymap C-x 4 will be replaced by a command," Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 19:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <83ft9woo68.fsf@gnu.org> <87wo377wxp.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <87wo353f77.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87o8ofoy9o.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23351"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov , Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 17 04:11:39 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jwFqc-0005z6-QF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/16 22:10:47 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252999 Archived-At: > > C-x 4 C-f is an important command -- don't break it! >=20 > Its effect should remain the same (displaying the output buffer in > another window), but the command namespace will be cleaner by removing > duplicated commands with '-other-window' and '-other-frame' suffixes. I _want_ separate commands. They're wonderful. Beautiful, handy, first-cl= ass citizens. I want to be able to bind a same-window, other-window, or other-frame comma= nd to a simple key in this or that mode, depending on what the command does= . For some actions in the same mode I want the same-window command, for ot= her actions I want the other-window command. For some actions I might not = want there to exist a (predefined) other-frame or other-window or same-wind= ow command. Some actions make good sense only for one or two such manifest= ations. You apparently see only a (neglible, IMO) upside to the changes being propo= sed/made. I see also downsides. The minor downside of defining multiple commands (same, other-win, other-fr= ame) for the same basic action, and of thus having multiple such in the nam= espace, doesn't bother me at all. And in fact, the presence of multiple such in the namespace is a plus in my= eyes, not a minus. A plus interactively and programmatically. As usual, my somewhat defeatist, rearguard plea is to please, at a bare min= imum, give users an easy way to 100% return to the situation ante, i.e., to= undo such an "improvement", globally & comprehensively, as well as just fo= r individual instances. The goal should keep users foremost in mind. It shouldn't be to simplify t= he implementation or the code maintenance, or to see how clever we can make= the implementation. It should be all about the users. > Also it should allow the users to add the effect of displaying the > command output buffer in another window to more commands easily, by just = adding > a key binding to the existing non-window command in the 'C-x 4' keymap. As I said earlier: seems like a solution looking for a problem to solve. I= haven't heard of any real problem that will be solved. Is there one? Wha= t's the disease this cure is for? > Anyway, before changing the 'C-x 4' keymap we could try this approach > only on project-specific submap 'C-x 4 p' to see how well it works. Please don't change `ctl-x-4-map' or any of the others. If you must fiddle= , please fiddle in a new, tiny sandbox off in a corner somewhere.