From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs? WAS: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 22:23:30 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1wi7a8o.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdteybt.fsf@runbox.com> <87368wrvf5.fsf@yahoo.com> <86k126d83n.wl-me@enzu.ru> <83pnbyckvv.fsf@gnu.org> <4923d7e98f5ed816a7569093dbc673153adcea88.camel@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="90532"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Evolution 3.36.3 To: Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii , Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 13 21:24:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jkBlb-000NRi-7f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 21:24:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47968 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkBlZ-00068z-TL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 15:24:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55088) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkBkv-0005GY-Dv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 15:23:53 -0400 Original-Received: from forward101j.mail.yandex.net ([5.45.198.241]:45493) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkBks-0003pX-Qu; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 15:23:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mxback18j.mail.yandex.net (mxback18j.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1619::94]) by forward101j.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 65D941BE0352; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 22:23:32 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: from sas2-e7f6fb703652.qloud-c.yandex.net (sas2-e7f6fb703652.qloud-c.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:c14:4fa6:0:640:e7f6:fb70]) by mxback18j.mail.yandex.net (mxback/Yandex) with ESMTP id WN5MRL8NXB-NWZGbGbd; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 22:23:32 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1592076212; bh=kLoUCOIi8RMqz+sCBdB7GIh1g0EfkkpTVXYj9qXfCLs=; h=In-Reply-To:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:References:Date; b=kCfJQ7B3n1JKnKIIzfna85dm70JDUslkQlLVrr+43dELBFI/j5MguN/NdfL9gj5bC YEeSDNsADazjSKjuPuRwbQD1VyfTT2rgXRKmSjg+GU/PVxchp3ZRlYBVauVMIUd3zK nmZczgoP+4P12x3Yo/3QvSRmAPRKxHpTASUZtSqI= Authentication-Results: mxback18j.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Original-Received: by sas2-e7f6fb703652.qloud-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id gAEU9PSM0R-NVBWQpFg; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 22:23:31 +0300 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client certificate not present) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.45.198.241; envelope-from=hi-angel@yandex.ru; helo=forward101j.mail.yandex.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/13 15:23:32 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252200 Archived-At: On Sat, 2020-06-13 at 17:35 +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 13.06.2020 14:59, Konstantin Kharlamov wrote: > > no other projects require > > writing down a list of functions I changed just for the fun of it > > As a reviewer, there's something to be said about having an overview of > the whole diff (which can get long) in a few paragraphs on top of the > patch. A good commit message like that actually makes a lot of things > clear in advance. FTR, I am all for having good commit messages. It is IMO a must have for any git project. But having a list of function names with description for each does not make one. Instead it should be an overview of what is done, why, and how. Suppose you have a patch that deduplicates the same code pattern across 34 functions by factoring it out to a single short function. Do you really need that list? I mean, sure it's a fun fact to know, but you'll have to review diff anyway. If anything, it only burdens you by forcing to check that each function is on the list. Commit message should reveal the intention of the changes (and perhaps, if OP thinks changes may raise questions, they should also write the reasoning). And then a reviewer gotta check (in particular) this intention matches the actual code. On that matter I often love to quote a post from 2009 by Peter Hutterer, a libinput and Linux HID subsystem maintainer. A post that is old but is not outdated http://who-t.blogspot.com/2009/12/on-commit-messages.html > But yes, that also compensates for otherwise more difficult review > process, compared to some automated tools other projects use. > > > Okay, you want this — but could you at least automate it! > > And no, some Emacs function does not cut it, people not necessarily use > > git from Emacs. I > > personally don't. Please, use git hoooks, because this is what everyone > > is*forced* to use, you can't possibly miss a git hook. > > Someday(tm) we'll migrate to Gitlab, or Gogs, or whatever, and we'll > have that. > > Regarding hooks, we do use them to an extent, but nobody has written a > checker for commit messages for them yet. And that still wouldn't cover > people who make patches against released/packaged versions of Emacs, as > opposed to the Git tree. > > The rest of your email, I pretty much agree with. Except, you know, it's > still quite possible to contribute (pointing to self).