From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 20:56:28 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org> <838sdfdzxo.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912121603.bsp53vgfwj3y62in@Ergus> <831rj7dvhg.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912131802.fiowctrzc2yx4ozu@Ergus> <83y2lfcdq2.fsf@gnu.org> <20200913023522.a3iie375xvpv23nx@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17499"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: ghe@sdf.org, Eli Zaretskii , casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 19:57:05 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHWFN-0004Sd-II for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 19:57:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36790 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHWFM-0007H2-L1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 13:57:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45602) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHWEr-0006nc-Vz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 13:56:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::136]:42850) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHWEq-0006FM-GM; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 13:56:33 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id b12so10958786lfp.9; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:56:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DdwM4Am8YUGZ4voZyfW2TSQ8tUVJmte7AhVgnjLRlO8=; b=R3svuPRrqOE2A+ZR0WyNz8NrP+cJhmqOzOMMLFrYdH8bum+0O72u286u/4U5FA1Oed jLgv1DFpuoKXqPvLuVhFt9mI/GkcwB1EAwLtGa7mnf4u3PJX+eefV37UPBCA2RSAIEG0 K02PqsxTRZopbd7hywJU+sw8iICHSxNvObtfLeA6TFBJVEzdOcS16Gtak9Y7wIJWZzy6 XnoUYhRwX694IAmZiA1v+RYA858EoenQ+7raQdYICuqhM9/SZFoIFtBVRUdU9X8MnuyS ud0Td8aiVwLoV2Z3tNlVQ5W15L6bqt/l9w0xILIKDiasBvhgAOzTUyWWV9uBq8mklb6l W7ug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DdwM4Am8YUGZ4voZyfW2TSQ8tUVJmte7AhVgnjLRlO8=; b=jpLq+EdMZJ7cr9X+OOCH6Lo2D6/M5hoZZdMmYHGQIyDkPV6YCEiC4/3DktBRLU0z+E uBjOZd3toYLmC/p49dRjzBemCkJh9325GNfDO7J3hI+iRIJ5Ec1Dg0o0StApheIUFvXn REuempPn4O8cibK2v3NBXHMgQiHDRlw4HFTvD7VXs9IqVUfGGBAr+MyCWmyoYBOHzn8p qsb1zgUa2DltCwGr9dv8Pikdz7ibbOKxn6G90e8n7mMMJO/t/oI/sVyA5Vo00mI4Rse1 F8mOjuvu1XVJI6fTBv9VFC7UtH3TYOgVORZKf2ZMTI/aymWxWN+i9ayBiD4vNCFhhRZ2 YOng== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531pKhCKbePCM5WtdB0MkNEQJEqL8IdBHeVKQrCCvKDXQyVM58Oh q9AY44YzpoA1XCRzzqOINufvLSTfKIE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxUaaNp5cnLNJqDcysa3RYerqXIbaVz7A7geccu8696rZ+RuQY3JywvSolqXNzJsO1qRZ3Cg== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5298:: with SMTP id q24mr3452755lfm.164.1600019789970; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.104] ([94.229.108.16]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q7sm2904075lfr.16.2020.09.13.10.56.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:56:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200913023522.a3iie375xvpv23nx@Ergus> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255546 Archived-At: On 13.09.2020 05:35, Ergus wrote: >> To my knowledge, if we want to come close to what those other editors >> show, our current best bet is icomplete-vertical (or something similar >> to it) > > I think that "something similar" is ivy+counsel. Indeed. icomplete and Ivy are fairly close in visual appearance, with icomplete being closer to "stock" experience, that's why it would be my #1 pick, but Ivy can be a good choice. > It works pretty fine, > lighter than helm and it is in elpa. The api engine is very polished and > the experience in general is better than with icomplete because it also > has integrated all the completion engines, sorting and formats in a > modular way. It does the latter through its own internal API IIRC, which I'm not 100% sure about, but it's not a deal breaker. >> PLUS a packages that moves the minibuffer to either the center or the >> top of the frame (or makes it seem live the minibuffer has been moved, >> of course). >> > ivy-posframe also offers this with the ivy engine. I already wrote to > the author to move it to elpa and he is asking the contributors if they > have all the gnu documentation. (He already has as he is the author of > posframe and company-posframe) Indeed, it's kinda weird to have both posframe and ivy in ELPA, but not posframe-ivy. Which will be required for the experience we are probably looking for. You should try maple-minibuffer, though. It might be easier to get it in, with just one author. > The only drawback is that posframes does not work in a terminal > interface as company do... (I totally ignore that's the difference > between a posframe and a normal window) And the other drawbacks that packages like maple-minibuffer have, like having to use fixed height, which shouldn't be necessary for a popup on top of the frame. Those aren't huge problems, so if we managed to get this kind of behavior into the default set, and maybe even get more core devs to try to use it, it could result in something positive. > Any way I think it is always better to have more than one option before > deciding which one we will "officially" support. No objections here ;-)