From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "John S. Yates, Jr." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: theming (was: Sorting of directories in dired) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 06:53:22 -0400 Message-ID: References: <42CC7021.5050606@student.lu.se> <42CCD07F.5010509@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1120736583 29655 80.91.229.2 (7 Jul 2005 11:43:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 11:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 07 13:43:01 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DqUmD-0005Ap-3p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 13:42:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DqUnZ-0000Vl-AC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 07:44:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DqU1Y-0002xr-2Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 06:54:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DqU1D-0002o0-EY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 06:54:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DqU1D-0002lL-1a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 06:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [204.127.202.59] (helo=sccrmhc14.comcast.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DqU1O-0007BU-9Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 06:54:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.yates-sheets.org ([24.218.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005070710474101400hkj57e>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:47:41 +0000 Original-Received: from 10.1.1.4 ([10.1.1.4]) by mail.yates-sheets.org (WinRoute Pro 4.2.5) with SMTP; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 06:53:10 -0400 Original-Received: from dadold.yates-sheets.org ([10.1.1.12]) by [10.1.1.4] with SMTP (SpamPal v1.57) sender ; 07 Jul 2005 06:53:10 -0400 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 X-SpamPal: PASS WLIST EMAIL X-Wlist-Pattern: john@yates-sheets.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:40553 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:40553 On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 01:28:22 -0700, Edward O'Connor wrote: >Here's one vote for leaving the default as it is. I love how Emacs >is a consistent environment across the various operating systems it >runs on, and would much prefer it for the default Dired behavior to >continue to be the same across all supported systems. With all of RMS's push to get the current, little-used theme code debugged and integrated I keep feeling that it simply will not address what I intuitively feel a theme concept should provide. Edward's comment quoted above provides a perfect case in point. Historically, the Emacs community has provided default behavior that catered to its entrenched userbase. The answer to nearly any suggestion that such behavior might be awkward / unfamiliar / jarring to new users, especially those on platforms held in low regard by the entrenched userbase, is that Emacs is customizable. Essentially a "Let them eat cake" attitude. The learning curve and shear volume of customization needed to make Emacs feel comfortable to a new Windows user (who may very well some day in the future run Emacs on *nix, but today has no interest in investing effort in such a potentiality) is daunting. My notion of a theme is not a named collection of configuration settings. Rather it is an expression of high-level intent: - as much as possible behave like Window / MacOS / *nix - underline clickable links - give me single frame behavior vs something like Drew's OneOnOne This is not unprecedented. There already seems to be a bit of this kind of mindset in the attempt to provide light-on-dark and dark-on-light default faces. /john