From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit-Claudel?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:47:19 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83wp5xat6i.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503337657 24608 195.159.176.226 (21 Aug 2017 17:47:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:47:37 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 21 19:47:33 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1djqnR-0005zT-9g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:47:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38465 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djqnX-0000eS-NQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:47:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38926) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djqnP-0000dV-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:47:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djqnK-0004mN-Vz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:47:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr0-x22d.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d]:38199) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djqnK-0004lK-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:47:22 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id p8so41249593wrf.5 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:47:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XnigMBxoO5vnzQMrJwMBxsUc8RKMNtw+ghfEZ3Pcem0=; b=lqeOgLEFON9iecLYht3diB1z413iSH7EpAF++iwWIxGbx5bViP3OeFeatrPQnUGa69 iIBSZGDZ3Knr0aX1MDoNuHUTJF7eyOrAGZYaWtE/evcxtK8xq0d2rn4XI85z/gqKlSDb GiWAQAakGDHNOrv7xkLPFdOXShjDP5bdRQs87gQahbG7NhW1idOZ6FYOqknAl/070yez tB9dfzeWk9MWizqZRf3Avmkc5ZKryeczfULAxhYmOz5GYmXFxCnDBByHDSOP9lvoQLGs Ck7RwgwA213Uj91fETvkfxtVS3R81fT17wzRBLmySm/i9SMKdIBeaMmo6go/irooSFpc 9ClQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XnigMBxoO5vnzQMrJwMBxsUc8RKMNtw+ghfEZ3Pcem0=; b=EzdurGjpYoyR9+aGH+NjZxP9SuF3e8hHnfYLnMYeIUdo2iYYF+O153/jbn4C7TOVd1 tT2MsjXvmLHYq4cKaPgTEfiLVyufP1GfavFHKRfGxNSJhf4sjY7dVa71xMAvA98G9JNq HabUuIlHiTaw+i3Tm5zxz8NUJSN9QvV6B5NcuwSp0evb/y1BHIvwHRRX+4bH335uTgGn UPuY5+Vlkb347cSDrQcqAWQKQpMpc1nmUb/ujq0m0EoA2V1nUT07ZJ8ie0G04Sgk6vM9 R8xlHvnepF5N3Qk4jfYZWfAv8Abaas2Kexm0dcnfMAFuqYW9vda44WTcTIRirC86VUZO cljQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gm1ZQAW3cdLsDSmfMunEy4ViAqyTu/8i2SjDQDCycypHJSPWZH Ct83Dwm4BdQkesx2/qw= X-Received: by 10.28.15.14 with SMTP id 14mr6602233wmp.80.1503337640193; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [128.93.83.69] ([128.93.83.69]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b96sm1859972wrd.94.2017.08.21.10.47.19 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:47:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-GB X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217663 Archived-At: On 2017-08-21 18:34, Radon Rosborough wrote: >>>> I think we should instead explore the possibility that >>>> package-initialize will be called only in startup.el. >>> >>> I think this is unlikely to work well. >> >> As I said, we should explore this in more detail, and have a detailed >> and agreed-upon list of reasons why it's not TRT. > > PROPOSITION: Calling `package-initialize' only in startup.el is > impossible without one of the following consequences: > > 1. It is impossible to customize `package-load-list' and > `package-user-dir'. > 2. We must add a second init-file. > 3. The user cannot add package customizations to their init-file > without using `after-init-hook'. > 4. Packages are not activated automatically. > > … > Can someone find a hole in this reasoning? I can't find an obvious flaw. But I wouldn't find it bad if customizing package-user-dir and package-load-list required an extra call to package-initialize — except for the fact that the first package-initialize call would have loaded everything already from the wrong user-dir, which is indeed an issue.