From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Jason Spiro" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Binding F11 and F12 to buffer-switching and file-saving by default Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:43:57 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87veio3npx.fsf@localhost.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <8764ao3hxn.fsf@localhost.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1170216472 27785 80.91.229.12 (31 Jan 2007 04:07:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:07:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Juanma Barranquero" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 31 05:07:36 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HC6kx-0005FP-T7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:07:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC6kx-0008Ta-Ep for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:07:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HBzpj-0006WZ-3U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:44:03 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HBzpf-0006Qk-On for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:44:02 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBzpf-0006Qg-Jy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:43:59 -0500 Original-Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HBzpf-00006p-7Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:43:59 -0500 Original-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b8so763314ana for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:43:57 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=Agl/n1yweH3amZLSc26kKYRMFEf2Ahz0pPg8d5jFisfxuvmP6/3j+QzdXOmvjMbAE+j1BrSQQ4eSoV3lcKm2orQV1YVE8z4i7c2L5LaiJ4vMp52oXZRPltA1KKC8i+I7INuq/gjb+dfzZfeP8TjQN+JCSUQFzQfPwToHG/0ze3c= Original-Received: by 10.114.169.2 with SMTP id r2mr83090wae.1170189837355; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:43:57 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.114.67.5 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:43:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: e2d02f444ad35f56 X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:07:23 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:65671 Archived-At: 2007/1/30, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On 1/30/07, Jason Spiro wrote: ... > > I define it as "the benefits to new Emacs users with no .emacs file > > outweigh the costs." IMO, it is important that new users enjoy Emacs > > as soon as possible. If they enjoy it, they will continue using it > > forever. > > Well, I think an Emacs user, if he's to be an Emacs user for any > significant amount of time, needs to learn to use the .emacs file > sooner rather than later. > Correct. > > That's OK. People without those keys can use C-x C-s and C-x b. > > Multiplying bindings for common commands adds confusion IMHO. > Hmm. Perhaps that is true. (To the rest of you: Do you agree?) But M-x compile and M-x recompile have no default binding. Perhaps a better answer, then, would be to bind them to some easy-to-press combination of keys by default. And also to bind a fast buffer-switching command to some key combination as well. ... > Do you really consider `recompile' a basic command that most users > *without* an .emacs file will need on a one-key binding? I suspect that one of the most popular uses of Emacs is programming. M-x recompile takes time to type. M-x RET is suboptimal because you must take your mind off your work for a moment to watch the minibuffer until the proper history entry comes up. IMO, a keybinding that all Emacs users could use, no matter what machine they were using, would be better. > > True, but it can be handy to have useful bindings preset by default. > > Yeah. The really difficult issue is deciding what are the useful bindings ;-) > Yes. I wonder if people have ever studied the issue, for example, usability researchers. > > So, do the benefits to newbies outweigh the costs? > > That's for others to decide. Yes, but as Stefan mentions in his reply to this message, we should at least bind F11 and F12 to *something*. Cheers, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I provide web and software development services businesses worldwide. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info@jspiro.com / MSN: jasonspiro@hotmail.com