From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Rename "window" to "pane" (after Emacs 27) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <878sjgbbot.fsf@oitofelix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="107690"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?utf-8?B?QnJ1bm8gRsODwqlsaXggUmV6ZW5kZSBSaWJlaXJv?= , Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas , Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 01 16:57:15 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jJenr-000Rvd-HS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 16:57:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33222 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJenq-0003KF-JH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 10:57:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJenJ-0002sO-Kn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 10:56:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJenI-0007fh-8c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 10:56:41 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:45056) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJenF-0007bs-9o; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 10:56:37 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 031EuYXS089666; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 14:56:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=8G46xEmKs6wLUSY3UWVKs6Lap4IresF3CHuA1xqvwDU=; b=ERCaLBCgodPh+ptVCvP+3twmzxfJLGKcyvjePVFgqlCUOkw3UCt2Ht4gu0TYZeD+xQjx kRuczen3MeRMXKw5Jks9p58Qy6CfRgUHP0ycjxK67dQSVMVf3G00qrlOAopMkmYOTQOL +eJkP5xgoiaYhsC4TGNJRsSNOUjH+XwR6kZA0vlgbBeljoS42GCjIX4lLk67Tq4FRRVk aIzEb1CfVz2x/wdMGciKt++lNY4/At+pU6UIb45d2lQoeCC1BvVAfZKlTgZwSww2IBqs uA0gYnuXfy6jz5Keb3fRRPMYhSdmQsyq2gP2BSeRsxbIxyZwrCKRG4oAqugUlTi+/JSY Dw== Original-Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 303aqhpebw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 01 Apr 2020 14:56:34 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 031EquqG003166; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 14:56:34 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 302g2gsc02-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 01 Apr 2020 14:56:34 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 031EuWY3022135; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 14:56:32 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9577 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004010132 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9577 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004010132 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.85 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:246197 Archived-At: > > I have nothing in principle against renaming "window" to "pane", but > > it would be a big transient. Before doing that, I think we should > > poll the users to see what they think about it. >=20 > How would we go about polling the users? >=20 > This is indeed a big undertaking, seeing as there is 50.000+ instances > of "window" in the tree to consider. I have made a few false starts, > but it's hard to decide the best way to start with such a big task. > I'm currently bogged down with real world commitments and dropped the > ball a bit here, but if there is interest I might be able to take > another stab at it when things clear up. IMHO (one user), not worth it. And not really needed. And would we then rename "frame" to "window", which would engender further confusion, especially wrt older versions and all of the existing Emacs collateral outside Emacs proper? Or if we didn't rename "frame", we would, in effect, have "frame panes". Really, I hope this gets discussed and decided based on arguments pro/con _whether_ it should be done, and not just green-lighted with discussion only of how to go about doing it. Every domain has its jargon. And yes, some of it is "just" historical - no logical need. That is, there may be a need for a term for something, but no compelling need for the term to be what it has been for historical reasons. That applies to many Emacs terms. An Emacs frame is a window manager window; yes. But it also has Emacs properties/behavior. Would it matter if it were called "window" instead? Not much, but then we'd be saying "Emacs window" to indicate when we were talking about its behavior/properties as controlled by Emacs. Anyway, I hope people think carefully about such a possible renaming. I've given my opinion, which might change depending on arguments given, but so far, no, please don't rename "window" to frame "pane".