From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: emacs-29 9b775ddc057 1/2: ; * etc/EGLOT-NEWS: Fix wording of last change. Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 12:50:31 +0300 Message-ID: References: <168335548287.8529.4912240840977468283@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20230506064443.56C75C22F15@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <59835735-faa0-4096-e491-35ec92964b7a@gutov.dev> <831qjthhm8.fsf@gnu.org> <715cdac6-83f6-6907-2ff8-3b33381f3487@gutov.dev> <83zg6hg29c.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttwpfvcr.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6spfose.fsf@gnu.org> <35df1362-fd92-9424-97d0-df3479414677@gutov.dev> <83edntfm6e.fsf@gnu.org> <667d5cc1-4a3c-5cd4-21c0-adff89cea769@gutov.dev> <834jopfdwz.fsf@gnu.org> <83v8h4elki.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5253"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , philipk@posteo.net Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 07 11:51:22 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pvb32-00014N-Tj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 07 May 2023 11:51:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvb2T-0004ek-0b; Sun, 07 May 2023 05:50:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvb2O-0004eS-0L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 May 2023 05:50:40 -0400 Original-Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvb2L-0005v8-NZ; Sun, 07 May 2023 05:50:39 -0400 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C515C0106; Sun, 7 May 2023 05:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 07 May 2023 05:50:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1683453035; x=1683539435; bh=7F1m8Cu40bINL+kgJB7XgJG8jL//1jj6mPr yIC9kRUs=; b=y48rtDSdM6u0Tpq8yRvo2AE6lpbg5SUV1uDwOqFhpI+b/ZOia/i cqMXg8IMsy6mfWpdi3uMXCq7BNGB1yx/tT0tS6/1SC0morYtBxF4wJapvOPwsan1 ugQMx3fyeTlPYqqrpNfc+OYg7m5Z36SPZE0NNsIHORmfpfnxDA7WLSG65pGWurEo U8ht4IkrrWyTxh0HxnPBdEHjJY2Pg+VTsny8jCnOBcRTpIemGZjzSblGg0xzE9VA lorD1HEWqY/gi2W0fupjdOkAuRKxffL0qYpQQBGWCaR9XKTDdVO1PmnOyILMGDrm tf/FlmAcwf5c3mQ0KZELDWczDNi6MLxoGbQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1683453035; x=1683539435; bh=7F1m8Cu40bINL+kgJB7XgJG8jL//1jj6mPr yIC9kRUs=; b=GAUyPusuIuRGUHeeNFdyxE6C/XWUJKCt+IMlNUtYrTw0f7BiHAk tJA+efDz4Nldt615vLNLJo7QW6IMOy6p/Ghuaqxa8zIDqS8HpP7Gi99O2qOegQXR +6JJPnZbQixI3VO9xQ3O345f+TCSARHGpTmsYWUXJKhQFzmJMly5TQjukn6ZOcMo rUXFerYsmh3HwbvWB6ACwPkUNFdwjAu+kARQRzupUjJQhURXST/dbkasfyHCS9zV ECkYTe4e4l08Uh+II6eG7UYJLrtkxRW3ryEi+BqMsXNhgrX4H5JfYFdGsab3DU/B lvmgM/uCAP1VRZANv9Ky2ClQj+u1AfGi2kQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrfeefiedgudelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtjeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeffmhhi thhrhicuifhuthhovhcuoegumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepiefgteevheevveffheeltdeukeeiieekueefgedugfefgefhudelgfefveel vdevnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepug hmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 7 May 2023 05:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <83v8h4elki.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.27; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=out3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -70 X-Spam_score: -7.1 X-Spam_bar: ------- X-Spam_report: (-7.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-4.28, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305945 Archived-At: On 07/05/2023 08:51, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 23:31:31 +0300 >> Cc: philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> >> On 06/05/2023 22:38, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>> package-menu-mark-upgrades ('U') is not affected by >>>> package-install-upgrade-built-in. It won't. >>> >>> Shouldn't it? >> >> Maybe, maybe not. > > I think it better did, because using "U" would upgrade Eglot and > use-package in Emacs 28 and before. So we should give users who want > that the capability of keeping that workflow in Emacs 29, if only as > opt-in behavior. > > Also, "/ u" should ideally show built-in packages as well, when > package-install-upgrade-built-in is non-nil. So we think upgrading built-in packages could be dangerous, but if the user wants to upgrade Eglot, then upgrading all built-ins is suddenly fine? > Philip, can these two changes be implemented safely for Emacs 29? > >> A user that customized that option to have (package-install 'eglot) >> ensure that a version from ELPA is installed might not want or expect >> for it to affect package-menu-mark-upgrades and/or package-upgrade-all. > > That is true, but denying them the possibility of upgrading would be > worse, I think. And since this is opt-in behavior, the user is less > likely to be tripped by that without realizing it. > >> Or anticipate the full consequences anyway. > > Documentation should solve this aspect. If the only way to get a basic scenario to work is to toggle a pref, we won't be able to go back and say "you shouldn't have toggled it". If we don't actually consider upgrading of all built-ins to be a problem, and are just hesitant to enable it in Emacs 29, then I guess it is fine. Otherwise, we've had a pretty good idea posted previously: patch where a variable holds the list of builtins that should be upgraded automatically.