From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Will default key bindings spell the death of Emacs? Date: 30 May 2003 10:48:50 +0900 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <3ED67422.7060305@math.ku.dk> <20030529214728.GA24984@gnu.org> <20030529.174743.98156433.Takaaki.Ota@am.sony.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054259421 6060 80.91.224.249 (30 May 2003 01:50:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 01:50:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri May 30 03:50:18 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19LZ29-0001ZV-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 03:50:17 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19LZH5-0005R7-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 04:05:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LZ22-0001Zj-6x for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 29 May 2003 21:50:10 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LZ1Q-0001Bd-8c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 May 2003 21:49:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LZ1B-0000P9-Le for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 May 2003 21:49:18 -0400 Original-Received: from tyo201.gate.nec.co.jp ([202.32.8.214]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LZ12-0008QE-CA; Thu, 29 May 2003 21:49:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailgate3.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.184])h4U1muM09548; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:48:56 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailgate51.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.196]) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.6p2/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) with ESMTP id h4U1mtT19759; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:48:55 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from edtmg01.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.26.16.201]) by mailsv.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILSV-NEC) with ESMTP id h4U1ms700128; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:48:54 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) id KAA18194; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:48:53 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (mcspd15 [10.30.114.174]) with ESMTP id h4U1moNH024590; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:48:51 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (Postfix, from userid 31295) id A10E3373B; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:48:50 +0900 (JST) Original-To: Tak Ota System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop In-Reply-To: <20030529.174743.98156433.Takaaki.Ota@am.sony.com> Original-Lines: 20 Original-cc: larsh@math.ku.dk X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14455 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14455 Tak Ota writes: > This idea of notion layer is interesting and easy to say but actual > implementation work is unimaginably enormous because it involves all > lisp libraries. I am not so positive if it is really worth daring. It's been explored a bit in the past, for instance in the Hemlock editor (CMUCL's emacs-a-like). I think it's a useful concept, but runs into problems if you try to apply it widely -- for instance, in emacs a major part of the command set is `related' keybindings, like n and C-n; are these one role? Two? If two, how are they related? In emacs, you can kind of get a similar effect using Kim's `command remapping' code. [e.g., (local-set-key [remap next-line] 'forward-char) ] -Miles -- Next to fried food, the South has suffered most from oratory. -- Walter Hines Page