From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving files from lisp/gnus/ to lisp/net/? Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:52 +0900 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20041020105027.GA17283@fencepost> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1098322189 31645 80.91.229.6 (21 Oct 2004 01:29:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:29:49 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 21 03:29:36 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CKRlo-0007KA-00 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:29:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKRtE-0007Op-3f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:37:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CKRt6-0007Oi-3u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:37:08 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CKRt3-0007OU-OY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKRt3-0007OR-M2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:37:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [202.32.8.206] (helo=tyo206.gate.nec.co.jp) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKRlI-00044j-8f; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:29:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mailgate3.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.160]) by tyo206.gate.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W02122014) with ESMTP id i9L1T1628914; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:29:01 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: (from root@localhost) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) id i9L1SxY12229; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:29:00 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from edtmg04.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.26.17.201]) by mailsv5.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILSV4-NEC) with ESMTP id i9L1Sw525148; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:58 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by edtmg04.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L1SvYo023303; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:57 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mctpc71 (mctpc71.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp [10.30.118.121]) by mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.12.10/8.12.8/EDcg v2.01-mc/1046780839) with ESMTP id i9L1Suwt004621; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:56 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by mctpc71 (Postfix, from userid 31295) id 8B93D3C0; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:53 +0900 (JST) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:32:19 +0200") Original-Lines: 64 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28675 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28675 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: >> I think this is generally considered a very bad thing to do. It's much safer >> (if less exciting) to just do the old cvs add+rm thing, and make the first >> commit log in the new location "renamed from foo". > > But then we lose the log. Not really -- it's still there in the old deleted file. My practice is simply to put in a pointer to the old file as the first commit message in the new file, so that someone interested in pre-rename history can look there, e.g.: cvs add foo; cvs commit -m"Renamed from bar" foo Alternatively, you can do as David suggested and simply use the entire old log as the initial commit message. Personally I don't think it's worth the bother -- CVS logs are handy on occasion, but they're not _that_ commonly used; if somebody has to expend a slight bit of extra effort to look at old logs (e.g., follow the pointer to the old name), it's not a tragedy. What's most important is that the information _is_ still there. Furthermore, as Stefan pointed out, CVS logs are typically not as necessary in GNU projects because the info is usually already there in the ChangeLogs (often in a more useful form). >> The reason it's bad, as I understand it, is that it essentially changes >> history; I'm not entirely sure of the all the user-visible repercussions, but >> I'm not sure I want to find out the hard way... > > Hm... I don't quite follow you. The CVS tree is (almost) just a > bunch of ,v files. The problem is that you're changing history: By renaming the ,v file, in effective you retroactively rename the file in old versions too. So sombody that tries to check out an old version using a tag (or -D...) will see the old version _with the more recent renames applied_. This loses for a few reasons: old Makefiles won't work correctly, diffs between these "retroactively updated" old versions and newer (post rename) versions won't actually reflect the "real" difference, possibly causing great confusion in merging, etc. It may be that in practice the bad effects are "acceptable" -- maybe nobody at all cares about old versions -- but it's really hard to tell in advance, and if it turns out later there _is_ a problem, well, then what? It's all around safer to use the boring and clunky rm+add method. It is less likely to yield surprises, and I think where source control is concerned, surprises are usually not what you want ... :-) [From my arch-gateway perspective, I presume that if you do the rename on both the v5-10 branch and the trunk simultaneously, the user-visible effect (from "cvs update") will be the same: the old names will disappear and will seem to be added under the new names. But ... I don't really know, and thus and somewhat worried.] -Miles -- We are all lying in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. -Oscar Wilde