From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Menu suggestion Date: 26 Apr 2004 17:39:00 +0900 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1082969212 20153 80.91.224.253 (26 Apr 2004 08:46:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:46:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 26 10:46:44 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI1lE-0002Nv-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:46:44 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI1lE-0005UN-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:46:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1iv-000323-ES for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:44:21 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1iU-0002zj-Et for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:43:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1hs-0002j0-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:43:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [210.143.35.52] (helo=TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1gv-0002QL-Fz; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:42:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailgate3.nec.co.jp (mailgate53.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.162] (may be forged)) by TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W01080315) with ESMTP id i3Q8d3h11119; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:40:44 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: (from root@localhost) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) id i3Q8d3F18002; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:03 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from edtmg05.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.26.17.202]) by mailsv.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILSV-NEC) with ESMTP id i3Q8d2r20498; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:02 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by edtmg05.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3Q8d1WF028628; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:01 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcspd15 (mcspd15 [10.30.114.174]) by mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.12.10/8.12.8/EDcg v2.01-mc/1046780839) with ESMTP id i3Q8d1nX019172; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:01 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by mcspd15 (Postfix, from userid 31295) id E826F4DE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:00 +0900 (JST) Original-To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 19 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22161 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22161 storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > So while your point is that to use emacs, the user must be taught a > non-standard set of cursor movement bindings, my point is that if we > allow a user to build on his current experience gained from other > applications, he can more quickly learn to use emacs as a whole. It seems to me that this is really only true for the arrow keys, not for the C-x/C-v, etc. -- which are enabled by default anyway. Given that C-x/C-v _interfere_ with normal emacs usage -- and C-x in a pretty serious way -- it seems unlikely that they're a good method to `introduce someone to emacs' (naive users, in my observation, do not use the keyboard for very much at all, they just use the mouse and menus a lot). -Miles -- `Suppose Korea goes to the World Cup final against Japan and wins,' Moon said. `All the past could be forgiven.' [NYT]