* ChangeLog conventions: fill-column
@ 2006-05-16 12:21 Reiner Steib
2006-05-16 14:43 ` Kim F. Storm
2006-05-17 2:10 ` Miles Bader
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-05-16 12:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi,
recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.
My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from
`change-log-mode'[1]. Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs
ChangeLog files?
Bye, Reiner.
[1]
,----[ <f1> f change-log-mode RET ]
| change-log-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `add-log.el'.
| (change-log-mode)
|
| Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode.
| Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 74.
`----
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-16 12:21 ChangeLog conventions: fill-column Reiner Steib @ 2006-05-16 14:43 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-16 15:00 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-16 15:18 ` Reiner Steib 2006-05-17 2:10 ` Miles Bader 1 sibling, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Kim F. Storm @ 2006-05-16 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > Hi, > > recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries. > My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from > `change-log-mode'[1]. Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs > ChangeLog files? I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars, but I'm not sure that is really ok). IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this. > > Bye, Reiner. > > [1] > > ,----[ <f1> f change-log-mode RET ] > | change-log-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `add-log.el'. > | (change-log-mode) > | > | Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode. > | Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 74. > `---- > -- > ,,, > (o o) > ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ -- Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-16 14:43 ` Kim F. Storm @ 2006-05-16 15:00 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 18:37 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-16 15:18 ` Reiner Steib 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-16 15:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1134 bytes --] storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > >> Hi, >> >> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries. >> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from >> `change-log-mode'[1]. Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs >> ChangeLog files? > > I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters > per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars, > but I'm not sure that is really ok). > > IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this. BTW, what is the rational of setting `fill-column' to 74 ? AFAIK, such a `fill-column' was used only in mails or news to allow easy replies under 80 columns. I don't see the point here, any clue ? -- | Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac | Would someone please DTRT with this | | Epita/LRDE Promo 2007 | then ACK? | | http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m | -- Richard Stallman | `-- - JID: micha@amessage.be --' - --' [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 142 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-16 15:00 ` Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-23 18:37 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 19:31 ` Michaël Cadilhac ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-23 18:37 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1211 bytes --] michael.cadilhac@lrde.org (Michaël Cadilhac) writes: > storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > >> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries. >>> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from >>> `change-log-mode'[1]. Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs >>> ChangeLog files? >> >> I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters >> per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars, >> but I'm not sure that is really ok). >> >> IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this. > > BTW, what is the rational of setting `fill-column' to 74 ? > > AFAIK, such a `fill-column' was used only in mails or news to allow > easy replies under 80 columns. > > I don't see the point here, any clue ? Nobody ? If there's no rational, why not put this limit to 79 in add-log.el ? Making this customizable is probably not a good solution, as we should then, for the sake of consistency, set left-margin, tab-width, ... to be customizable too. Patch attached, if needed. [-- Attachment #1.1.2: add-log.patch --] [-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 3478 bytes --] Index: lisp/ChangeLog =================================================================== RCS file: /sources/emacs/emacs/lisp/ChangeLog,v retrieving revision 1.9586 diff -c -B -b -r1.9586 ChangeLog *** lisp/ChangeLog 23 May 2006 11:23:25 -0000 1.9586 --- lisp/ChangeLog 23 May 2006 18:31:37 -0000 *************** *** 1,3 **** --- 1,7 ---- + 2006-05-23 Michaël Cadilhac <michael.cadilhac@lrde.org> + + * add-log.el (change-log-mode): Change `fill-column' from 74 to 79. + 2006-05-23 Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnu.org> * emacs-lisp/ewoc.el (ewoc-delete): New function. Index: lisp/add-log.el =================================================================== RCS file: /sources/emacs/emacs/lisp/add-log.el,v retrieving revision 1.177 diff -c -B -b -r1.177 add-log.el *** lisp/add-log.el 9 May 2006 22:58:54 -0000 1.177 --- lisp/add-log.el 23 May 2006 18:31:37 -0000 *************** *** 685,697 **** ;;;###autoload (define-derived-mode change-log-mode text-mode "Change Log" "Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode. ! Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 74. New log entries are usually made with \\[add-change-log-entry] or \\[add-change-log-entry-other-window]. Each entry behaves as a paragraph, and the entries for one day as a page. Runs `change-log-mode-hook'. \\{change-log-mode-map}" (setq left-margin 8 ! fill-column 74 indent-tabs-mode t tab-width 8) (set (make-local-variable 'fill-paragraph-function) --- 685,697 ---- ;;;###autoload (define-derived-mode change-log-mode text-mode "Change Log" "Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode. ! Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 79. New log entries are usually made with \\[add-change-log-entry] or \\[add-change-log-entry-other-window]. Each entry behaves as a paragraph, and the entries for one day as a page. Runs `change-log-mode-hook'. \\{change-log-mode-map}" (setq left-margin 8 ! fill-column 79 indent-tabs-mode t tab-width 8) (set (make-local-variable 'fill-paragraph-function) Index: lisp/textmodes/ispell.el =================================================================== RCS file: /sources/emacs/emacs/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el,v retrieving revision 1.199 diff -c -B -b -r1.199 ispell.el *** lisp/textmodes/ispell.el 21 May 2006 20:25:43 -0000 1.199 --- lisp/textmodes/ispell.el 23 May 2006 18:31:37 -0000 *************** *** 2572,2586 **** (or no-error (error "There is no ispell process running!")) (if ispell-async-processp ! (progn ! (process-send-eof ispell-process) ! (if (eq (ispell-process-status) 'run) ! (ispell-accept-output 1)) ! (if (eq (ispell-process-status) 'run) ! (kill-process ispell-process)) ! (while (not (or (eq (ispell-process-status) 'exit) ! (eq (ispell-process-status) 'signal))) ! (sleep-for 0.25))) ;; synchronous processes (ispell-send-string "\n") ; make sure side effects occurred. (kill-buffer ispell-output-buffer) --- 2572,2578 ---- (or no-error (error "There is no ispell process running!")) (if ispell-async-processp ! (delete-process ispell-process) ;; synchronous processes (ispell-send-string "\n") ; make sure side effects occurred. (kill-buffer ispell-output-buffer) [-- Attachment #1.1.3: Type: text/plain, Size: 323 bytes --] -- | Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac | All your base are belong to us. | | Epita/LRDE Promo 2007 | You have no change to survive | | http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m | make your time, hahaha. | `-- - JID: micha@amessage.be --' -- Zero Wings - --' [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 142 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-23 18:37 ` Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-23 19:31 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 21:31 ` Robert J. Chassell 2006-05-24 5:50 ` Richard Stallman 2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-23 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1792 bytes --] michael.cadilhac@lrde.org (Michaël Cadilhac) writes: > michael.cadilhac@lrde.org (Michaël Cadilhac) writes: > >> storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: >> >>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries. >>>> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from >>>> `change-log-mode'[1]. Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs >>>> ChangeLog files? >>> >>> I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters >>> per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars, >>> but I'm not sure that is really ok). >>> >>> IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this. >> >> BTW, what is the rational of setting `fill-column' to 74 ? >> >> AFAIK, such a `fill-column' was used only in mails or news to allow >> easy replies under 80 columns. >> >> I don't see the point here, any clue ? > > Nobody ? If there's no rational, why not put this limit to 79 in > add-log.el ? > > Making this customizable is probably not a good solution, as we > should then, for the sake of consistency, set left-margin, > tab-width, ... to be customizable too. > > Patch attached, if needed. > > Index: lisp/ChangeLog > Index: lisp/add-log.el > Index: lisp/textmodes/ispell.el Of course, the last one has nothing to do with the topic. Sorry. -- | Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac | Pour les 35-40 ans, l'humour | | Epita/LRDE Promo 2007 | c'est une plus-value. | | http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m | -- Guillaume L. | `-- - JID: micha@amessage.be --' - --' [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 142 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-23 18:37 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 19:31 ` Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-23 21:31 ` Robert J. Chassell 2006-05-23 22:46 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-24 5:50 ` Richard Stallman 2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Robert J. Chassell @ 2006-05-23 21:31 UTC (permalink / raw) ... such a `fill-column' was used only in mails or news to allow easy replies under 80 columns. > I don't see the point here, any clue ? Nobody ? If there's no rational, why not put this limit to 79 in add-log.el ? There is at least one rationale besides the 500 year old one having to do with the abilities or inabilities of your and my eyes -- even with lots of interline spacing, a long line makes it hard to discover the beginning of the next line. Besides that rationale, the problem that effects me is most frequently -- more frequently than I like -- is that some one quotes an item in a message to my friend Joe and he quotes it in a message to me. Quotes are supposed to reflect what the original writer said and not be corrupted by filling or anything like that (although they often are). I hate to say it, but you really do not want a fill-column of more than 72. 70 is the standard based on regular computer monitors. Printed books usually display less inter-line spacing and shorter lines. (The convention is `twice the length of an alphabet plus major punctuation'. For English, that produces a line 60 or 61 characters wide, depending on whether you consider a hyphen to be `major punctuation'. When you have more interline white space, as computer displays do, then you can have more characters on a line.) -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-23 21:31 ` Robert J. Chassell @ 2006-05-23 22:46 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-24 0:24 ` Robert J. Chassell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Kim F. Storm @ 2006-05-23 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes: > There is at least one rationale besides the 500 year old one having to > do with the abilities or inabilities of your and my eyes -- even with > lots of interline spacing, a long line makes it hard to discover the > beginning of the next line. ChangeLogs have 8 chars of indentation on every line, so they can be longer than normal. Also, detecting the next line is typically not a problem in change logs as continued lines are quite rare - and they _don't_ start with a left parenthesis. > > Besides that rationale, the problem that effects me is most frequently > -- more frequently than I like -- is that some one quotes an item in a > message to my friend Joe and he quotes it in a message to me. Quotes > are supposed to reflect what the original writer said and not be > corrupted by filling or anything like that (although they often are). > How often do you qoute and re-quote a ChangeLog entry? > I hate to say it, but you really do not want a fill-column of more > than 72. 70 is the standard based on regular computer monitors. > Printed books usually display less inter-line spacing and shorter > lines. With 8 chars indentation, fill-column = 72 + 8 = 80 should be ok then? Anyways, we have used 79 chars for ages now, so the question is not whether it makes sense, but how to enforce that policy. Doing it in add-log means that it applies to non-emacs change logs too. Doing it in emacs' own change logs applies to emacs only, so it will not interfere with other projects. So should we change the default fill-column for everybody, or just for emacs? -- Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-23 22:46 ` Kim F. Storm @ 2006-05-24 0:24 ` Robert J. Chassell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Robert J. Chassell @ 2006-05-24 0:24 UTC (permalink / raw) ChangeLogs have 8 chars of indentation on every line, so they can be longer than normal. You mean, after one quoting, they are indented 12 spaces? That distance tells me a ChangeLog is special. Presumably, it does not to you. Doing it in add-log means that it applies to non-emacs change logs too. Doing it in emacs' own change logs applies to emacs only, so it will not interfere with other projects. Well, since I changed the default fill-column for 10 or 15 years (until I decided that Emacs' shorter default made more sense), all I can say is that you can change the default, too. It is a suggestion -- and in my opinion, a very good suggestion for things read on computer monitors. (As far as I am concerned, a shorter line length does make sense for books printed without much interline space.) -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-23 18:37 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 19:31 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 21:31 ` Robert J. Chassell @ 2006-05-24 5:50 ` Richard Stallman 2006-05-24 9:13 ` Kim F. Storm 2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2006-05-24 5:50 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel The reason for shorter lines is that they are easier to read. I'd rather not change this. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-24 5:50 ` Richard Stallman @ 2006-05-24 9:13 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-25 0:36 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Kim F. Storm @ 2006-05-24 9:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Michaël Cadilhac, emacs-devel Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > The reason for shorter lines is that they are easier to read. > I'd rather not change this. But as I said in another mail, lines in ChangeLogs are already shorter because they are indented by 8 chars -- so setting fill-column to 79 for change logs does not make the lines harder to read than the usual 72 char text lines. -- Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-24 9:13 ` Kim F. Storm @ 2006-05-25 0:36 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2006-05-25 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: michael.cadilhac, emacs-devel I think the current width of 74 is good. However, I am not going to insist. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-16 14:43 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-16 15:00 ` Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-16 15:18 ` Reiner Steib 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-05-16 15:18 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, May 16 2006, Kim F. Storm wrote: > Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: >> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries. >> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from >> `change-log-mode'[1]. Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs >> ChangeLog files? > > I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters > per line in Emacs ChangeLog files [...] Thanks. > IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this. ACK, either this or in `change-log-mode'. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column 2006-05-16 12:21 ChangeLog conventions: fill-column Reiner Steib 2006-05-16 14:43 ` Kim F. Storm @ 2006-05-17 2:10 ` Miles Bader 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Miles Bader @ 2006-05-17 2:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries. Some people seem to have hooks or something to do this automatically, with the result that when they touch a changelog to document their own change, a bunch of unrelated changes get made to the changelog. [Or perhaps they do so manually whenever they touch the changelog.] This often makes the changelog prettier, but can be quite annoying for merging... -Miles -- Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose --Janis Joplin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-05-25 0:36 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2006-05-16 12:21 ChangeLog conventions: fill-column Reiner Steib 2006-05-16 14:43 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-16 15:00 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 18:37 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 19:31 ` Michaël Cadilhac 2006-05-23 21:31 ` Robert J. Chassell 2006-05-23 22:46 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-24 0:24 ` Robert J. Chassell 2006-05-24 5:50 ` Richard Stallman 2006-05-24 9:13 ` Kim F. Storm 2006-05-25 0:36 ` Richard Stallman 2006-05-16 15:18 ` Reiner Steib 2006-05-17 2:10 ` Miles Bader
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