From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: config.in Date: 17 Apr 2002 10:08:13 +0900 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87g01vbhzi.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp> <1018986015.10524.108.camel@space-ghost> <1676-Wed17Apr2002000044+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019005939 24825 127.0.0.1 (17 Apr 2002 01:12:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:12:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: walters@verbum.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16xdzf-0006SI-00 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:12:19 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16xeI6-0002uY-00 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:31:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16xdzT-00021A-00; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:12:07 -0400 Original-Received: from tyo202.gate.nec.co.jp ([210.143.35.52]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16xdyU-0001zf-00; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:11:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mailgate4.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.195]) by TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W01080315) with ESMTP id g3H1AZQ25186; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:10:37 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mailsv4.nec.co.jp (mailgate51.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.190]) by mailgate4.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) with ESMTP id g3H18PL23052; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:08:25 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.30.114.133]) by mailsv4.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILSV4-NEC) with ESMTP id g3H18MB03927; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:08:22 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (mcspd15 [10.30.114.174]) by mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.10.2+Sun/3.7Wlsi_mx_6.0) with ESMTP id g3H18Dg01323; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:08:13 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (Postfix, from userid 31295) id 2350137D4; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:08:13 +0900 (JST) Original-To: Eli Zaretskii System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop In-Reply-To: <1676-Wed17Apr2002000044+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il> Original-Lines: 32 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:2680 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:2680 "Eli Zaretskii" writes: > I object that we require users to install Autoconf and Automake just > to build Emacs. Those are tools for developers, not for users. This is not what's being suggested. Anyone who checks emacs out of CVS is basically not a normal user, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to have normal GNU tools. Note that even if these generated files are included, they may _still_ need the auto* programs, because CVS makes no attempt to preserve timestamps, and the Makefile will attempt to regenerate the files anyway (though the checked-out contents are actually `up to date'). > IMHO it doesn't make sense to go through all that just to save us the > ``cost'' of a 25KB file. The `cost' is not 25KB, it's all the annoyance of constantly having to fight with CVS getting confused because a file got regenerated locally which then doesn't match the CVS version. In my case, this also ends up making CVS updates take much longer because CVS ends up resending all the `changed' files back to the server over my slooow connection. This is all stupid, and it's not how things are supposed to work. If people on MSDOS or whatever have a harder time to regenerate these files, then we can find some other solution, but the default should be what's good for GNU systems, which are by far the majority among developers. -Miles -- P.S. All information contained in the above letter is false, for reasons of military security.