From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:35:03 +0900 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153280140 13453 80.91.229.2 (19 Jul 2006 03:35:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:35:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 19 05:35:39 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G32qU-0006Cl-TE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:35:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G32qU-00068f-Cl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:35:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G32qJ-00068a-Oi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:35:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G32qI-00068A-6r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:35:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G32qI-000683-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:35:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [203.180.232.83] (helo=mgate03.necel.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G32tI-00007w-OF; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:38:29 -0400 Original-Received: from relay21.aps.necel.com (relay21 [10.29.19.50]) by mgate03.necel.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6J2RiFu022751; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:35:18 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from relay21.aps.necel.com ([10.29.19.20] [10.29.19.20]) by relay21.aps.necel.com with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:35:18 +0900 Original-Received: from dhapc248.dev.necel.com ([10.114.97.235] [10.114.97.235]) by relay21.aps.necel.com with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:35:18 +0900 Original-Received: by dhapc248.dev.necel.com (Postfix, from userid 31295) id 86445481; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:35:03 +0900 (JST) Original-To: "Drew Adams" System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:37:26 -0700") Original-Lines: 45 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57313 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: > I think the term "shortcut", while common among the GUI set, actually > does do some harm by subtly encouraging people to think of menus as the > "standard" way of doing things. For that reason, it really should only > be used in applications where that is indeed true, not in applications > like Emacs where it is most certainly not true. > > Why do you say "menus"? I didn't. I mentioned menus and links and "using > `M-x'". I don't think of key bindings as shortcuts for just menu > access. Perhaps not, but that's _exactly_ how the term shortcut is used in the GUI toolkits from which you clearly got the term (and thus the sense in which most people that know what the term means will interpret it). > In Emacs, they are shortcuts for commands, whether `M-x ' or > menu access or even macro execution. They are, in fact, "keyboard > shortcuts" for longer ways of doing things. No they are not. Commands and bindings are different things. A binding is not a shortcut for a command, because they are entirely different sorts of things. To say A is a shortcut for B implies that: (1) A and B are both essentially the same type of action, (2) that B is in some sense the more "normal" / proper / advertised / whatever, and (3) that A is somehow quicker / easier than B. There's also typically an implication that A, while quicker than B, is also "less proper" / quick-and-dirty / etc. [You could say that a key binding is a shortcut for M-x command-name, but that's a bit dodgy, because M-x command-name is not in most cases the conventional way of invoking commands -- so it depends on the specific command whether.] These nuances seem fairly obvious to me. I presume that you are a native English speaker, but perhaps you're so immersed in the windows world that the term shortcut has lost it's conventional connotations for you. -Miles -- `...the Soviet Union was sliding in to an economic collapse so comprehensive that in the end its factories produced not goods but bads: finished products less valuable than the raw materials they were made from.' [The Economist]