From: Miles Bader <miles@lsi.nec.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Customize fringe
Date: 10 May 2002 10:32:08 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <buo3cx0eqjr.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ilu4rhhp0iy.fsf@latte-eth2-dhcp128.josefsson.org>
Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
> > My point was that, unlike menus or toolbars, people will _usually_ want to
> > do something besides turning fringes entirely on or off (presuming they
> > want to do anything at all), and that as a result, having `fringe-mode' +
> > adjustments is the wrong user-interface to this functionality.
>
> Ok. I based the design from what I wanted out of it. If other people
> want to do more fine tuned things, I guess it is easy to add.
Let me be more explicit: We _shouldn't_ adopt `fringe-mode' and then
`add' to it -- we should just call it something else.
The basic name of a feature has a strong influence on how people think of
it, even if it's possible to change the details on the side. In this case
the name `fringe-mode' suggests (by example, from many other emacs
commands) that the `basic functionality' is to have fringes either (1) on
or (2) off. If people see this, and are annoyed by the default fringes,
they're going to thing `oh, that's how I deal with those !@#$# fringes,'
invoke it, and (95% of the time) leave it at that, ending up with no
fringes -- and that's undesirable, since other configurations also save
space without incurring the rather high penalty in usability that no
fringes does.
Here's a suggestion for what I think is a better interface:
Call it `reduced-fringe-mode', and have it switch between full fringes
and, say, right-fringe-only. People who _really_ want to have no fringes
at all can customize an associated configuration variable and choose that
possiblity as the `reduced' state, and it will still make sense. It could
also allow a C-u prefix to select an alternative configuration, or prompt
for the configuration, or whatever.
> > it's common for people to want to simply turn scrollbars on or off, but
> > the scrollbar location is merely a detail.
>
> I disagree -- I rather disable the scrollbar than to have on the left.
> The location is not a detail.
That's what I said -- `people to want to simply turn scrollbars on or
off.' Here `detail' implies a secondary characteristic, of less
importantance that the main `boolean' behavior (and obviously for you, of
_zero_ importance).
> Compare with scroll-bar-mode and menu-bar-mode, is it really that
> different?
Yes, because simply eliminating fringes is more harmful than removing the
scroll-bar or menu-bar (which have good alternatives), so we want to
gently encourage people to do something less drastic -- and I think people
would generally be happy with a `reduced' option. I suspect that the main
thing that makes people dislike fringes is that a whole column for each
side seems like a lot of wasted space, especially for the left side (where
it's much more obvious than the right-side because all the text abuts it).
> I want on/off, you suggested half/half and left only and right only.
> Are there more?
I don't think it really matters for this purpose; if any are found, they
can easily be added later.
I think enhancing the display code so that it tries to use alternative
bitmaps for `reduced' fringes would make them much more useful --
e.g. a 4/4 split or 2/6 split might be perfect if they had bitmaps
tuned for them.
-Miles
--
97% of everything is grunge
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-05-10 1:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 40+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-05-09 12:05 Customize fringe Simon Josefsson
2002-05-09 12:28 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-09 17:36 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-09 18:48 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-09 19:46 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-10 1:32 ` Miles Bader [this message]
2002-05-10 6:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-10 7:23 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-10 9:40 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-05-10 11:07 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-05-10 11:08 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-05-10 10:44 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-05-10 12:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-10 13:37 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-05-13 2:16 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-11 6:31 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-11 8:04 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-09 18:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-09 18:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-05-09 19:39 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-09 21:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-05-09 22:13 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-09 22:24 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-11 8:16 ` Pavel Janík
2002-05-11 9:14 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-11 10:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-11 12:24 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-11 23:28 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-05-11 6:31 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-09 23:31 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-05-11 9:12 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-11 23:44 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-05-11 23:11 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-12 4:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-12 9:51 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-12 10:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-12 10:30 ` Simon Josefsson
2002-05-12 12:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-13 14:18 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-10 0:29 ` Richard Stallman
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