From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Will default key bindings spell the death of Emacs? Date: 30 May 2003 15:33:21 +0900 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <3ED67422.7060305@math.ku.dk> <84znl5ggoj.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054276429 15176 80.91.224.249 (30 May 2003 06:33:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 06:33:49 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri May 30 08:33:48 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19LdSW-0003we-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 08:33:48 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19LdhX-0000BX-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 08:49:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LdT7-000817-81 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 30 May 2003 02:34:25 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LdSa-0007Z7-8d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 May 2003 02:33:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LdSJ-0006cp-VC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 May 2003 02:33:36 -0400 Original-Received: from tyo201.gate.nec.co.jp ([202.32.8.214]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LdSG-0006NG-Nr; Fri, 30 May 2003 02:33:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mailgate3.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.194])h4U6XTM22685; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:29 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mailsv2.nec.co.jp (mailgate52.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.191]) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) with ESMTP id h4U6XTf14137; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:29 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from edsgm01.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.50.208.11]) by mailsv2.nec.co.jp (8.11.6p2/3.7W-MAILSV2-NEC) with ESMTP id h4U6XSm27531; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:28 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) id PAA05760; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:27 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (mcspd15 [10.30.114.174]) with ESMTP id h4U6XLNH003794; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:21 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (Postfix, from userid 31295) id 4254F373B; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:21 +0900 (JST) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop In-Reply-To: <84znl5ggoj.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> Original-Lines: 32 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14461 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14461 kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Gro=DFjohann) writes: > I also started to use Gnome a short while ago, and there I also > changed the keybindings to my liking. I had similar problems, only > fewer of them, because Gnome doesn't allow for configuring so many > bindings. >=20 > Given that Emacs has *hundreds* of keybindings, people are going to > have real problems with the rebinding. For example, if you rebind > ESC and C-x and C-c, then you lose a lot of other bindings that you > somehow need to make accessible. I think in part this simply points out that the tools available for changing bindings are not very good. It's not hard to image something that would give you a broad visual presentation of the current bindings, highlight which key ranges are `reserved for users,' help you avoid conflicts, allow you to define your own `binding sets,' etc. > I like the Gnome approach where you can select some flavors of > keybindings and don't have to change each one of them individually. > This is also offered by Emacs, via cua and crisp-mode and > wordstar-mode and so on. It's nice to have some preselected flavors available that capture various popular preferences, but the Gnome viewpoint that users Just Shouldn't Change Anything is assinine. Boo, gnome.* * Yes I know that it makes life much simpler for the maintainers, and support/help/etc, but none the less it's user hostile, and I am a user. -Miles --=20 Ich bin ein Virus. Mach' mit und kopiere mich in Deine .signature.