From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 05:54:30 +0300 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <550fa43f-30ef-14f3-dd19-dd97a985a04e@yandex.ru> <95bddb34-2c3f-eff5-220f-16b726d97a69@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="37389"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, pcr910303@icloud.com, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 04:55:27 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXybG-0009dG-PQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 04:55:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49090 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXybF-0006zf-OP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:55:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46826) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyaR-0006XC-LM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:54:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]:34034) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyaR-0001tX-2P; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:54:35 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id y3so9001563wrt.1; Sun, 10 May 2020 19:54:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+hfBXALJGEAKRc8fJSp08TlgyvmpW/MPXS60cO4uo0c=; b=epSUt1T17EvpzVnb0fbSt6+/e3n1nJpg8Yb8LaWXKRpfbc/trJMo6vsH/ml0lzQnkA AKU2+hPrnOWi1291rSKobVTnRRhvgECeqvtTovjz3tk1etbQSTIKfndxRGJGaxpiUI3h s9zsTMuj4uOzQQiFwfqDzRxyYmgMgylBkjfa1NTiiK3Bgv7nomShAOA2pE5iGgQpALdx 6Z6u/Vo0tc80hFTt6hIR80L3kMGmxb2xcGpHMqKswKCgIurt7kj3IEAnx5okE8q5cv7R vEKDVQ2zmjQ+98AQnCc1JPXaQHQBtz55waOB3m6aGvtBy495PBOEab6QgO7ZmK9jHkzv DS1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+hfBXALJGEAKRc8fJSp08TlgyvmpW/MPXS60cO4uo0c=; b=TSkINz0eBxi+jG/tUG5Vbn18ZIFmLHI0a8LxBGrucbTCmxz4MdS6vLOhehtmptj/gS +WmBPrCNbuS1ipgkvT7uJJVsIYgmYZ2nbcJMNJey53bwWx+QZV9/LyP42hlxIUmgEmxo 0ko2p4gFV+ljVqP7Wyzn99flZtszDf5U0bbf5LpJjniA9KYv5yvmVXmMR6pTkmGKd62G 2lpCf/OZBe3q1zXYlMzhqGN5GDkAUyUKZhsK922oQa9pyjdpheWG3I5r7jHSUcHV8jb7 BumCLnxd9SGeHn73HjjhifAPGJaiTxAt/G5pEUa7jVv+mD17CKkqrgKSOOvR8R6+EFwe u2sQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYuLGriva3ofNNxZ1BvGwRVPX9/JIz5GflOzRetral/BefqNvNl ueH8r6K96g/vjoDA6Edg58c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK8Lo8qre8QjYi7ivC1arvl52QP7GKaYaBMqI4ARSU2Ns+O+m8r3FIvy0p/ObEAiLCyJKRNcQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f24b:: with SMTP id b11mr16959190wrp.313.1589165672948; Sun, 10 May 2020 19:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id v2sm17244065wrn.21.2020.05.10.19.54.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 May 2020 19:54:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42e; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249750 Archived-At: On 11.05.2020 05:37, Richard Stallman wrote: > > Right. And I'll posit that including s.el into GNU ELPA, by itself, will > > not hurt any of these three goals. > > It would mess up the naming in GNU Emacs, making two incongruous > systems. Not in GNU Emacs, though. In ELPA. I would agree that s.el is, in a sense, unnecessary (considered by itself), but there are clear benefits to including it as well, as a part of existing ecosystem. > Those who argue for incorporating s.el are saying > that we should abandon judging Emacs design decisions, and blindly > yield to the choices of a group of people that hardly talk with us, > value other traditions more than those of Emacs and Lisp, and would > like to paste the others over those two. This sounds like a strawman. We're not discussing doing that. There was a separate discussion on improving some of the names of the functions in the core, but you effectively put a stop to that endeavor. I find that regrettable as well.