From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "R. P. Dillon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Emacs plugin system & Gecko embedding Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:06:13 -0700 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1022_30623323.1209935173102" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1209935193 13148 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2008 21:06:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 21:06:33 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 04 23:07:07 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JslQJ-00058P-GX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 23:07:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41082 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JslPZ-0002A8-Kx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 17:06:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JslPU-00026N-24 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 17:06:16 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JslPT-00025z-FU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 17:06:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52059 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JslPT-00025q-Ct for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 17:06:15 -0400 Original-Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.251]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JslPS-0005SM-PW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 17:06:15 -0400 Original-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k29so1060679rvb.6 for ; Sun, 04 May 2008 14:06:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=A2X9zO1WhIbZYc69rfxcz/9bOgPPa0MEdsRNdaXh3ag=; b=tQQWwia+ejde+g0yJwvGrbC/hrPoYsmh5Ro4UtOP07+HKcGVa+0tJ+h/9fDV6+5qSKIKzXlcbLDsD0OFZlF2lS1awZcXWvMdAbXsY1NLRIg8D6iXTzIBhI87BNVg8KxeT4dxsvZOGJmH77qG9jox8Wou0KYVLVy8WtT4C3Ti0rM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=VQI3vm0xZDtDG7KNAS1jZyJ4zBKRkAT3XMYsmVeXbnV70JUMy3cmVCbct31mJ539Y7rjvmXweSx7YAp2SeAXmHS5GiKPhXUTM8hE0p5GA+Dayf2th2adApWaehgaXblOpyn76406AbsHnlSKNJLmcOf+ZbJG3mOPDboOHa9V4p8= Original-Received: by 10.140.88.11 with SMTP id l11mr2461552rvb.156.1209935173112; Sun, 04 May 2008 14:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.141.42.5 with HTTP; Sun, 4 May 2008 14:06:13 -0700 (PDT) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:96450 Archived-At: ------=_Part_1022_30623323.1209935173102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I posted something like this to comp.emacs, but I thought this would be a far better forum. After reading Steve Yegge's recent post about Emacs' competitor being Firefox (user extensibility being the central feature of concern) rather than, say, XEmacs or IDEs, I began to see what he was saying, as outlandish as it sounds. Out of that post came a comment that having "real" browsing capability inside of Emacs would be a killer feature. I tend to agree. I *live* in Emacs and Firefox. I don't think this can be effectively accomplished in elisp, and I also think that starting from scratch would be too much burden on the dev team. I think integration of Gecko would be a good option. While it is GPL, it can never become *part* of Emacs proper (no assignment of copyright to FSF), but Mozilla is in the process of working on XULRunner, which is supposed to provide something called libxul that can be used for cross-platform embedding of Gecko into other programs. If Emacs included a wrapper for libxul, folks that have Firefox installed could make use of Gecko rendering inside of Emacs. For me, at least, this would be fabulous. I'm aware of efforts along these lines using XEmebed, but that is quite platform specific (i.e. GNU/Linux, BSD, etc.), neither Windows users nor OS X users would be able to avail themselves of that functionality. To my question: is this something that anyone sees value in doing? Can we abstract a buffer in such a way that an arbitrary piece of C/C++ can be wrapped to satisfy the buffer "contract" and be embeded in Emacs? If so, this could form the basis for a type of plugin system that could extend Emacs at the C level and would allow for libxul to be leveraged to create an in-Emacs browser system. ------=_Part_1022_30623323.1209935173102 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I posted something like this to comp.emacs, but I thought this would be a f= ar better forum.

After reading Steve Yegge's recent post about E= macs' competitor being Firefox (user extensibility being the central fe= ature of concern) rather than, say, XEmacs or IDEs, I began to see what he = was saying, as outlandish as it sounds.

Out of that post came a comment that having "real" browsing c= apability inside of Emacs would be a killer feature.  I tend to agree.=   I *live* in Emacs and Firefox.
I don't think this can be effe= ctively accomplished in elisp, and I also think that starting from scratch = would be too much burden on the dev team.  I think integration of Geck= o would be a good option.  While it is GPL, it can never become *part*= of Emacs proper (no assignment of copyright to FSF), but Mozilla is in the= process of working on XULRunner, which is supposed to provide something ca= lled libxul that can be used for cross-platform embedding of Gecko into oth= er programs.  If Emacs included a wrapper for libxul, folks that have = Firefox installed could make use of Gecko rendering inside of Emacs.  = For me, at least, this would be fabulous.  I'm aware of efforts al= ong these lines using XEmebed, but that is quite platform specific (i.e. GN= U/Linux, BSD, etc.), neither Windows users nor OS X users would be able to = avail themselves of that functionality.

To my question: is this something that anyone sees value in doing? = ; Can we abstract a buffer in such a way that an arbitrary piece of C/C++ c= an be wrapped to satisfy the buffer "contract" and be embeded in = Emacs?  If so, this could form the basis for a type of plugin system t= hat could extend Emacs at the C level and would allow for libxul to be leve= raged to create an in-Emacs browser system.
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