From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Introducing thread-safe Tramp Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 09:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <8736wa9c5s.fsf@gmx.de> <87wotkn6do.fsf@gmx.de> <874lgn8x6l.fsf@gmx.de> <87sh44pisz.fsf@gmx.de> <87a7qbitc7.fsf@gmx.de> <878t5tdsfc.fsf@gmx.de> <83wotcpzub.fsf@gnu.org> <87bmaiuwml.fsf@gmx.de> <877el6uwio.fsf@gmx.de> <7c28f9d8-e2bb-4778-ab92-92707f12718f@default> <87r2jew2fd.fsf@gmx.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1533399311 21688 195.159.176.226 (4 Aug 2018 16:15:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 16:15:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , fgunbin@fastmail.fm, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Michael Albinus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 04 18:15:07 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1flzCs-0005Xs-2C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 18:15:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55594 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flzEy-0007Ws-Ay for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 12:17:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35632) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flzED-0007Wl-82 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 12:16:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flzEC-0004pL-Bn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 12:16:29 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:47144) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flzE6-0004lb-NR; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 12:16:22 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w74GEes0134758; Sat, 4 Aug 2018 16:16:16 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=Myr2vFP4t2d0gIQQlUjgPrZpRpDYWboaoemxeGJK8SI=; b=G9DpFWkRYloR65TmtIxHEL8mJWfhDHtHHEtH+6BsHMQczjRcsHZZuhMG31fHnYmp2d3V zICrBhhqU9tbl8cyWIzQ7g/hGsp1QLdeeOiWK/V/OafSoqjjLAtMu9f6UI2YCcd7DYYY XSL8bx3hfRQuNkgrrrkMUs1uELc6IHTZqxJryp3wtVZRfZ71BxjQb0VDKMTBiRH8co/U aln82PJnMa8z3vxz3tuzd8mfbWGNdi+fv15uCMOY7jEhQLlqjHzGyMUsrTegZvbEtcrI UCjKgAk8440mp6L03xOYyXmkDfazdm96Hb6e/wfQ/HqjgXN0jS4V6tIhJhW+MnTEmEmA Kg== Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kn1ncs5ar-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 04 Aug 2018 16:16:16 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w74GGF8X028029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Aug 2018 16:16:15 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w74GGEv2031419; Sat, 4 Aug 2018 16:16:14 GMT In-Reply-To: <87r2jew2fd.fsf@gmx.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8975 signatures=668707 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=18 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808040179 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.79 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228164 Archived-At: > The variable sets a default. But sometimes, I want to visit a file sync > or async the other way the default tells. It is a simple approach to > overwrite the default ad-hoc, w/o fiddling with the variable customizatio= n. I understood that. That was the starting point (with your initial desire to= use a prefix arg with the standard file commands), and it's a common use o= f a prefix arg. I agree with such toggling. (In fact, I'm in favor of even = toggling user options this way, which is considered a no-no here.) > And it has the advantage that it works both "C-x & C-x C-f ..." and > "C-x & M-x find-file ...". No new key bindings, no new commands. I > regard this as essential advantage, given my poor memory muscle ... I understood that. > > Not sure what to think about the `C-x &' proposal. It certainly is > > interesting, though - seems even generally promising. We've never > > taken such an approach before, have we (dunno)? Is there a new need? > > Or is this discovery of a helpful, general new feature? Seems like the > > latter. (Could be both.) Perhaps this deserves some new terminology > > and general doc. >=20 > I propose we just start with it, and see how it works. Emacs 27 is years > away, there's much time for improvement. You didn't answer wrt why we shouldn't just define additional commands and = let users create async/sync toggle commands using them (and binding them to= the same muscle-memory keys), or why we shouldn't also create such toggle = commands (toggling with a prefix arg), but not necessarily bind them to the= standard keys right away. IOW, what we usually do. > > (Someone will probably point out that this is nothing special/new, and > > that I just haven't had enough coffee this morning...) >=20 > Indeed, you miss coffee :-) I have stolen this from > `universal-coding-system-argument' ("C-x c ..."), as suggested by E= li. Right. But this is still a new use case, I think. The `C-x RET c' case is p= retty much the only other use of this technique, AFAIK. We document the use of prefix keys, i.e., binding a key to a keymap. We don= 't document this technique/cliche. Perhaps we should.