From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs? WAS: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 23:30:00 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1wi7a8o.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdteybt.fsf@runbox.com> <87368wrvf5.fsf@yahoo.com> <86k126d83n.wl-me@enzu.ru> <83pnbyckvv.fsf@gnu.org> <4923d7e98f5ed816a7569093dbc673153adcea88.camel@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="101082"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Evolution 3.36.3 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , Emacs developers To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= , Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 13 22:31:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jkCoK-000QCa-2L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 22:31:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47998 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkCoJ-0003Ly-0L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 16:31:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53716) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkCnF-0002To-Bd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 16:30:21 -0400 Original-Received: from forward102p.mail.yandex.net ([2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:102]:39737) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkCnC-0006ad-Oh; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 16:30:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mxback11o.mail.yandex.net (mxback11o.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1a2d::62]) by forward102p.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 485721D4173C; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 23:30:03 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: from sas2-e7f6fb703652.qloud-c.yandex.net (sas2-e7f6fb703652.qloud-c.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:c14:4fa6:0:640:e7f6:fb70]) by mxback11o.mail.yandex.net (mxback/Yandex) with ESMTP id gNDGo8IOUO-U23q4krd; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 23:30:03 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1592080203; bh=bfkF5Ey95R2ZBB6G3qcz3oLB5hKSg1HOkMmkxG6oNi8=; h=In-Reply-To:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:References:Date; b=kYa5dLU4N+Mjd3hwoVWtsgyurCQLM18zT7bvO2yAHX2Ro8cxo3IysQn6I3t7lAkWY VP0XkG2RVDTVkQPt1/qPp3WOhLG5RU6Am3MwpzuOw8mgLGjkQBXABZv1rEL+ZbPFJw Bd0c2lpbYhBtUrNlVlYw3OAG5e/v3jo5QNfaZ4pY= Authentication-Results: mxback11o.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Original-Received: by sas2-e7f6fb703652.qloud-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id M9UVlOPLZ1-U1BKV54Y; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 23:30:02 +0300 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client certificate not present) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:102; envelope-from=hi-angel@yandex.ru; helo=forward102p.mail.yandex.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/13 16:30:03 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252205 Archived-At: On Sat, 2020-06-13 at 20:38 +0100, João Távora wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 15:36 Dmitry Gutov wrote: > > On 13.06.2020 14:59, Konstantin Kharlamov wrote: > > > no other projects require > > > writing down a list of functions I changed just for the fun of it > > > > As a reviewer, there's something to be said about having an overview of > > the whole diff (which can get long) in a few paragraphs on top of the > > patch. A good commit message like that actually makes a lot of things > > clear in advance. > > +1. I even use this for my own projects or projects where it's not required. > Producing that list is a last self-reviewing step that summarizes _how_ the > change was implemented. The diff itself is the ultimate source, but a summary > is it very welcome. > > Of course most good commit messages don't stop there, they also explain the > _why_. > > In general, Konstantin. I think your "for fun" exemplifies how you and many > others think of these procedures as spurious, or gratuitous. But they're not, > they exist because she people, whom you may disagree with, find them useful. Oh, sure I can be mistaken. I see you replied to Dmitry's email, I had a follow- up on it. Does my follow-up mail change your opinion, or perhaps do you have some example in mind that a good commit message without the list would not solve?