From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 17:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536710619 10839 195.159.176.226 (12 Sep 2018 00:03:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:03:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, Joost Kremers , Noam Postavsky , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 12 02:03:34 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzsd3-0002i8-3S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 02:03:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60031 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzsf9-0003gJ-DX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:05:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57522) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzsey-0003ec-AR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:05:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzsex-0000kK-E1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:05:32 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:48216) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzseo-0000YA-Qm; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:05:24 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w8C03icJ027272; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:05:09 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=0Jn9G4W1VyvanMMaM3MnejKpkYW2HEXK8nmFA98GSY0=; b=u2jTFxO+PovArTEU28LtvW5/5p7syBAKWmWEdgi+S/Gp0DBN8tN1UF9N81jdPPmpv+O8 6W53XyLPqsIxpNL6f06bXMKQBAU1P/ksQ7MmSn+wkfFrGzwbB2qpoToQQmQJwNdGqvKz BvkPbUQ5rgyXMjWkN30iRDpYzYZ4jpmOZGDwEMJa0F+3MlfFiy+NhXjBsSLNtjcokmSb A7UbtNiPFeU4TGFNrjx08/cU8YK1YfFhGlsJUI5fw3c8KCvA+fblunbi66rr4a3VXhdi Ap29lyG9nVeBqsHW1Ct3+kqYMOP5zhwCBhmoLkuhXF+xnES2bg5r0pbA5+NLr0RdXYqx cw== Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2mc5utf8nw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:05:09 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w8C0539f030474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:05:03 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w8C04xWw029268; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:04:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4735.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9013 signatures=668708 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=911 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809120000 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229689 Archived-At: > Highlighting regions should be separated from whether they are active or > not, and I don't want hidden regions, either. There are ways to highlight the region without activating it. You can use one of those (preferably with a different face, if you also sometimes use an active region).. But it's important to highlight the active region. > Currently even when a region is not active (it is a hidden region > because it is not highlighted), you can do something with it, so users > always get an "active" region even when they don't want one. It's only > a bit less active than it is when it is highlighted. The "active region" has a well-defined meaning in Emacs. Don't confuse things by talking about how you can act on the region when it is not active in the usual sense. > > I feel like region activation by `C-x C-x' was maybe foisted > > on people who never wanted or expected to do anything > > with an active region. >=20 > Do you mean they would rather do things with hidden regions? I never > want to do that. Not clear, but it sounds like you do want an active region, in the usual sense, but you want it to be active for only some things, none of which are type/paste to replace/delete. > Use point and mark purely for navigation, set a selection-start-marker > with C-spc and a selection-end-marker with another C-spc (or whatever > key binding is appropriate for it). The region is between these > markers, and you can have multiple regions in the same buffer. Do > something with a region, and its markers are forgotten unless you use a > prefix. Have a key binding to jump around between the regions in a > buffer, and you can tell Emacs with which of them you want to do > something by moving point into it. If you want to do the same thing > with multiple regions, move point into one after another and make them > "sticky" for operation, or mark them right after selecting them. Much of what you describe is available with various libraries, including `zones.el' (https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Zones).