Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Uwe Brauer]

    -  the symbol  œ, which in latex is represented by \oe and occurs
       in words like sœur (sister) puzzles me very much:
       First I can't find it neither in a french keyboard nor in
       iso-accents-mode nor in quail (Xemacs 21.4/21.5 Mule) (GNU emacs
       21/22).
       However when using latex and using x-symbol, \oe gets displayed
       as the relevant symbol, although in a sort of strange way:
       My current main font is courier-bold: that symbol gets displayed
       in something which looks like a fixfont of the sort of the family
       mixed, but it is not, xfontsel does not show me this symbol.

       So I don't know, I am no french native and have no idea how
       usually this symbol is generated (it seems that windows french
       keyboard has some ALT-I don't know key generating this
       symbol). The question is, should Mule support this char and how.

       X-symbol does not save this char as unicode or anything like this
       but as \oe.

    -  ispell does not know how do spell this word sœur

Can anybody please clarify.


regards

Uwe Brauer 

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Miles Bader]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:  >        So I don't know, I 
am no french native and have no idea how >        usually this 
symbol is generated (it seems that windows french > 
keyboard has some ALT-I don't know key generating this > 
symbol). The question is, should Mule support this char and how. 
I see the following input methods can be used to enter ^[$(D)M^[(B:   sgml: 
&oelig;
   rfc1345: &oe
   latin-9-prefix: /o
   latin-prefix: /o
   latin-postfix: o/

-Miles

-- 
Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his
ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two
clarionets.

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ^[$(D+.^[(B and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Kenichi Handa]

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In article <87ljwa6zjj.fsf@mat.ucm.es>, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>     -  the symbol  ^[$(D)M^[(B, which in latex is represented by \oe and occurs
>        in words like s^[$(D)M^[(Bur (sister) puzzles me very much:
>        First I can't find it neither in a french keyboard nor in
>        iso-accents-mode nor in quail (Xemacs 21.4/21.5 Mule) (GNU emacs
>        21/22).

With the input method "latin-postfix", you can type that
character by "o/2" (just "o/" is mapped to ^[,Ax^[(B).

>        However when using latex and using x-symbol, \oe gets displayed
>        as the relevant symbol, although in a sort of strange way:
>        My current main font is courier-bold: that symbol gets displayed
>        in something which looks like a fixfont of the sort of the family
>        mixed, but it is not, xfontsel does not show me this symbol.

Please type C-u C-x = on that character and show me the result.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ^[$(D+.^[(B and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Kenichi" == Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes:

   > In article <87ljwa6zjj.fsf@mat.ucm.es>, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
   > writes:

   >> -  the symbol  œ, which in latex is represented by \oe and occurs
   >> in words like sœur (sister) puzzles me very much:
   >> First I can't find it neither in a french keyboard nor in
   >> iso-accents-mode nor in quail (Xemacs 21.4/21.5 Mule) (GNU emacs
   >> 21/22).

   > With the input method "latin-postfix", you can type that
   > character by "o/2" (just "o/" is mapped to ø).


Right, I oversaw this, but then I propose to include it in
french-postfix/prefix

   >> However when using latex and using x-symbol, \oe gets displayed
   >> as the relevant symbol, although in a sort of strange way:
   >> My current main font is courier-bold: that symbol gets displayed
   >> in something which looks like a fixfont of the sort of the family
   >> mixed, but it is not, xfontsel does not show me this symbol.

   > Please type C-u C-x = on that character and show me the result.
Hm this does not work well in emacs21 (I have 22 on anther Laptop) ,
latin-postfix does not exist only latin-[1-9]-postfix. Latin9-postfix
for some bizarre reason gives 2 symbols ø and œ

In any case when using the x-symbol approach it indeed does 
generate it without problems and C-u C-x = gives me the following two results


--8<------------------------schnipp------------------------->8---
  character: ø (07570, 3960, 0xf78)
    charset: latin-iso8859-15
			 (Right-Hand Part of Latin Alphabet 9 (ISO/IEC 8859-15): ISO-IR-203)
 code point: 120
     syntax: word
   category: l:Latin  
buffer code: 0x8E 0xF8
  file code: 0xC3 0xB8 (encoded by coding system mule-utf-8)
       font: -Misc-Fixed-Bold-R-Normal--18-120-100-100-C-90-ISO8859-15

--8<------------------------schnapp------------------------->8---

And 

--8<------------------------schnipp------------------------->8---
  character: œ (07475, 3901, 0xf3d)
    charset: latin-iso8859-15
			 (Right-Hand Part of Latin Alphabet 9 (ISO/IEC 8859-15): ISO-IR-203)
 code point: 61
     syntax: word
   category: l:Latin  
buffer code: 0x8E 0xBD
  file code: 0xC5 0x93 (encoded by coding system mule-utf-8)
       font: -Misc-Fixed-Bold-R-Normal--18-120-100-100-C-90-ISO8859-15
--8<------------------------schnapp------------------------->8---


Uwe Brauer 

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and Å

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <871vy26xmn.fsf@mat.ucm.es>, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> Hm this does not work well in emacs21 (I have 22 on anther Laptop) ,
> latin-postfix does not exist only latin-[1-9]-postfix. Latin9-postfix
> for some bizarre reason gives 2 symbols ø and œ

> In any case when using the x-symbol approach it indeed does 
> generate it without problems and C-u C-x = gives me the following two results


> --8<------------------------schnipp------------------------->8---
>   character: ø (07570, 3960, 0xf78)
>     charset: latin-iso8859-15
> 			 (Right-Hand Part of Latin Alphabet 9 (ISO/IEC 8859-15): ISO-IR-203)
[...]
>        font: -Misc-Fixed-Bold-R-Normal--18-120-100-100-C-90-ISO8859-15

In Emacs 22, if you are in utf-8 locale, when you use
latin-*-postfix input methods, the characters inserted is
translated to mule-unicode-* charset, and thus they are
displayed using some of iso10646-1 fonts.  So if you have a
courier-bold font of which REGISTRY-ENCODING is ISO10646-1,
those characters should be displayed with that font.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Miles Bader]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>        So I don't know, I am no french native and have no idea how
>        usually this symbol is generated (it seems that windows french
>        keyboard has some ALT-I don't know key generating this
>        symbol). The question is, should Mule support this char and how.

I see the following input methods can be used to enter ^[$(D)M^[(B:

  sgml: &oelig;
  rfc1345: &oe
  latin-9-prefix: /o
  latin-prefix: /o
  latin-postfix: o/

-Miles

-- 
Cynic, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as
they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a
cynic's eyes to improve his vision.

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Miles Bader]

Hmm, why did gnus (message-mode) only encode the first non-ascii
character in the Subject: header?  Odd...  Lemme try again...

-Miles

-- 
Come now, if we were really planning to harm you, would we be waiting here,
 beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest?

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Miles" == Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

   > Hmm, why did gnus (message-mode) only encode the first non-ascii
   > character in the Subject: header?  Odd...  Lemme try again...

   > -Miles

My mistake, I presume, but I will ask in the gnus list, 
I send this mail using xemacs 21.4 and maybe the  Mule support is
flawed in gnus. (Or better said in xemacs 21.4)

I should have used GNU 21/22 or Xemacs 21.5.

Alas so many emacs(en) around.

Uwe 

Non-encoded character in the subject (was: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ)

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Oct 27 2008, Uwe Brauer wrote:

>>>>>> "Miles" == Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:
>
>    > Hmm, why did gnus (message-mode) only encode the first non-ascii
>    > character in the Subject: header?  Odd...  Lemme try again...

The `œ' isn't encode, but sent as a raw iso-2022-7bit character
(character U+001B replaced with <ESC>):

| Subject: Re: Emacs 21/22:  french =?iso-8859-1?q?=E7?= and <ESC>$(D)M<ESC>(B

I cannot reproduce this, neither with Emacs 22.1 nor with current
Emacs trunk (2008-10-25):

ELISP> (let ((mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-2022-jp-2 utf-8)))
	 (rfc2047-encode-string "french ç and œ oe"))
"french =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E7?= and =?iso-2022-jp-2?B?GyQoRClNGyhC?= oe"

ELISP> (let ((mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-2022-jp-2 utf-8)))
	 (rfc2047-encode-string "french ç and œ oe"))
"french =?iso-2022-jp-2?B?GyQoRCsuGyhC?= and =?iso-2022-jp-2?B?GyQoRClNGyhC?=\n oe"
ELISP> (let ((mm-coding-system-priorities nil))
	 (rfc2047-encode-string "french ç and œ oe"))
"french =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A7?= and =?utf-8?Q?=C5=93?= oe"

> My mistake, I presume, 

No, your message was encoded correctly, AFAICS:

| Subject: Emacs 21/22:  french =?iso-8859-1?q?=E7?= and =?iso-8859-15?q?=BD?=

> but I will ask in the gnus list, I send this mail using xemacs 21.4
> and maybe the Mule support is flawed in gnus. (Or better said in
> xemacs 21.4)
>
> I should have used GNU 21/22 or Xemacs 21.5.
>
> Alas so many emacs(en) around.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Non-encoded character in the subject

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 27 2008, Uwe Brauer wrote:
>>>>>>> "Miles" == Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> Hmm, why did gnus (message-mode) only encode the first non-ascii
>>> character in the Subject: header?  Odd...  Lemme try again...

> The `œ' isn't encode, but sent as a raw iso-2022-7bit character
> (character U+001B replaced with <ESC>):

>| Subject: Re: Emacs 21/22:  french =?iso-8859-1?q?=E7?= and <ESC>$(D)M<ESC>(B

> I cannot reproduce this, neither with Emacs 22.1 nor with current
> Emacs trunk (2008-10-25):

If the subject is encoded correctly when performing

C-u C-c C-m P

in the message buffer, the culprit is not Gnus in all likelihood.
It might be MTA's doing.  Though it doesn't come under the case,
Reiner's message I received from the MS Exchange POP server is
broken as follows:

Subject:
 =?Windows-1252?Q?Non-encoded_character_in_the_subject_(was:_Emacs_21/22:_?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?_french_=E7_and_=C5=93)?=
i.e.,
Subject:
 Non-encoded character in the subject (was: Emacs 21/22:  french ç and Å“)

But no problem in the same message having reached Gmane.

Regards,

Re: Non-encoded character in the subject

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Oct 28 2008, Katsumi Yamaoka wrote:

> If the subject is encoded correctly when performing
> C-u C-c C-m P
> in the message buffer, the culprit is not Gnus in all likelihood.
> It might be MTA's doing.  Though it doesn't come under the case,
> Reiner's message I received from the MS Exchange POP server is
> broken as follows:
>
> Subject:
>  =?Windows-1252?Q?Non-encoded_character_in_the_subject_(was:_Emacs_21/22:_?=
>  =?Windows-1252?Q?_french_=E7_and_=C5=93)?=
> i.e.,
> Subject:
>  Non-encoded character in the subject (was: Emacs 21/22:  french ç and Å“)
>
> But no problem in the same message having reached Gmane.

Uh, this is the first time I hear that MTAs are changing the MIME
encoding of mail headers (I know about MTAs converting the
Content-Transfer-Encoding, e.g. qp <-> 8bit, of the body).

In fact, the article on Gmane has:

,----[ http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/105053/raw ]
| Subject: Non-encoded character in the subject (was: Emacs 21/22:  french
|  =?iso-8859-1?q?=E7?= and =?utf-8?b?xZMp?=
`----

My gcc-ed copy has:

,----[ Gcc ]
| Subject: Non-encoded character in the subject (was: Emacs 21/22:  french
|  =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E7?= and =?utf-8?Q?=C5=93=29?=
`----

Note the difference: binary vs. QP for the second encoded word.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Non-encoded character in the subject

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:
> Uh, this is the first time I hear that MTAs are changing the MIME
> encoding of mail headers (I know about MTAs converting the
> Content-Transfer-Encoding, e.g. qp <-> 8bit, of the body).

The MS Exchange server changes not only mail headers but also
the MIME structure in a message body.  For instance, all inline
parts in a message body are turned into attachments.  Body
encoded with utf-8 and quoted-printable are turned into base64,
etc.  That's really boneheaded.  Sigh.

Re: Non-encoded character in the subject

[Miles Bader]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:
> The MS Exchange server changes not only mail headers but also
> the MIME structure in a message body.  For instance, all inline
> parts in a message body are turned into attachments.  Body
> encoded with utf-8 and quoted-printable are turned into base64,
> etc.  That's really boneheaded.  Sigh.

Or as my friend-who-works-at-microsoft says, "that's so MS."

-Miles

-- 
Opposition, n. In politics the party that prevents the Goverment from running
amok by hamstringing it.

Re: Non-encoded character in the subject

[Miles Bader]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> Uh, this is the first time I hear that MTAs are changing the MIME
> encoding of mail headers (I know about MTAs converting the
> Content-Transfer-Encoding, e.g. qp <-> 8bit, of the body).

My "original" (written by FCC: into a local file here) message has this:

   Subject: Re: Emacs 21/22:  french =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E7?= and
    =?iso-2022-jp-2?B?GyQoRClNGyhC?=

but the copy of that same message I get via NNTP from Gmane has this:

   Subject: Re: Emacs 21/22:  french =?iso-8859-1?q?=E7?= and ^[$(D)M^[(B

where I've replaced literal ESC characters with the two-character
sequence ^[ in this reply.

-Miles

-- 
Road, n. A strip of land along which one may pass from where it is too
tiresome to be to where it is futile to go.

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Uwe Brauer]

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>>>>> "Miles" == Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >> So I don't know, I am no french native and have no idea how
   >> usually this symbol is generated (it seems that windows french
   >> keyboard has some ALT-I don't know key generating this
   >> symbol). The question is, should Mule support this char and how.

   > I see the following input methods can be used to enter ^[$(D)M^[(B:

   >   sgml: &oelig;
   >   rfc1345: &oe
   >   latin-9-prefix: /o
   >   latin-prefix: /o
   >   latin-postfix: o/

   > -Miles

Thanks 

You are right! Sorry, in any case I propose to include it in
french-prefix and french-postfix! 

Uwe

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and ^[$(D)M^[(B

[Miles Bader]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
> You are right! Sorry, in any case I propose to include it in
> french-prefix and french-postfix! 

Yeah, I think the latin- input methods are considered kind of dubious in
the first place.

-Miles

-- 
Un-American, adj. Wicked, intolerable, heathenish.

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Stefan Monnier]

>     -  ispell does not know how do spell this word sœur

Not sure what's going on with it, but œ was somehow left out from
latin-1 (although it did make it into latin-9, aka "latin-1 with euro
sign").  So all places where it causes problems were probably written
back in the latin-1 days.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Stefan" == Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

   >> -  ispell does not know how do spell this word sœur
   > Not sure what's going on with it, but œ was somehow left out from
   > latin-1 (although it did make it into latin-9, aka "latin-1 with euro
   > sign").  So all places where it causes problems were probably written
   > back in the latin-1 days.


   >         Stefan

So do you agree to include it in french-postfix/prefix?

As for ispell: I am not sure whether this can be solved on the level of
lisp or whether somehow the ispell code itself has to be modified.

Uwe 

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> -  ispell does not know how do spell this word sœur
>> Not sure what's going on with it, but œ was somehow left out from
>> latin-1 (although it did make it into latin-9, aka "latin-1 with euro
>> sign").  So all places where it causes problems were probably written
>> back in the latin-1 days.

> So do you agree to include it in french-postfix/prefix?

Of course.

> As for ispell: I am not sure whether this can be solved on the level of
> lisp or whether somehow the ispell code itself has to be modified.

That I don't know.  If we use latin-1 to communicatr with ispell, then
we need to check that it's indeed correct (maybe ispell expects
latin-9).  If ispell indeed expects latin-1, then the problem is
in ispell.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:05:55 -0400
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> > As for ispell: I am not sure whether this can be solved on the level of
> > lisp or whether somehow the ispell code itself has to be modified.
> 
> That I don't know.  If we use latin-1 to communicatr with ispell, then
> we need to check that it's indeed correct (maybe ispell expects
> latin-9).  If ispell indeed expects latin-1, then the problem is
> in ispell.

IIRC, Ispell supports only single-byte encodings.  As such, the
encoding it expects is the same encoding used for the dictionary from
which the *.hash file was produced.  If the dictionary was encoded in
Latin-1, that is what Ispell will expect for that dictionary.

To have a Latin-9 dictionary, one needs to recode it, and then produce
a .hash file and add an entry to ispell-dictionary-base-alist for the
new dictionary, stating the correct encoding.

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Stefan" == Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

   >>>> -  ispell does not know how do spell this word sœur
   >>> Not sure what's going on with it, but œ was somehow left out from
   >>> latin-1 (although it did make it into latin-9, aka "latin-1 with euro
   >>> sign").  So all places where it causes problems were probably written
   >>> back in the latin-1 days.

   >> So do you agree to include it in french-postfix/prefix?

   > Of course.

What do you think of even have the following in the quail rules?
 ("/o" ?œ)				; clash with ø, but æ uses /
 ("oe" ?œ)				; 

I am not sure whether in french oe always should be represented by the
symbol œ? In any case a patch is trivial.

A simple diff against the old file is ok? Or are some parameters needed
for the diff? Where shall I send this "patch"

Uwe 

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Paul R]

Hello Uwe,

Uwe> I am not sure whether in french oe always should be represented
Uwe> by the symbol œ?

No, it is not. The word « coefficient » is an exemple, it just can't
be written « cœfficient ». For what it's worth, also, writing
« coeur » is incorrect, it can only be written « cœur ». IOW, 'œ'
really is a first class caracter in French and isn't equivalent to
'oe'.

Thanks for this work,

-- 
  Paul

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul R <Paul> writes:

   > Hello Uwe,
   Uwe> I am not sure whether in french oe always should be represented
   Uwe> by the symbol œ?

   > No, it is not. The word « coefficient » is an exemple, it just can't
   > be written « cœfficient ». For what it's worth, also, writing
   > « coeur » is incorrect, it can only be written « cœur ». IOW, 'œ'
   > really is a first class caracter in French and isn't equivalent to
   > 'oe'.

Thanks, for this information, so binding oe is a really bad idea.

Uwe 

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Stefan Monnier]

Uwe> I am not sure whether in french oe always should be represented
Uwe> by the symbol œ?
> No, it is not. The word « coefficient » is an exemple, it just can't
> be written « cœfficient ».

Indeed, kind of like the "ue -> ü" in German, where zuerst can't be
written zürst, but it's really one of a fairly few exceptions.
I don't know if that means that ("oe" ?œ) would be desirable or
annoying, tho.

> For what it's worth, also, writing « coeur » is incorrect, it can only
> be written « cœur ».

Never heard of that one, so maybe the French Academy made such
a decision at some point, but it hasn't seen much use.  Especially since
œ didn't even make it into latin-1 and was hence "unavailable" for
many years.

> IOW, 'œ' really is a first class caracter in French and isn't
> equivalent to 'oe'.

The "Robert" dictionary sorts "œ" as if it were "oe", so it's pretty
close to equivalent.

> A simple diff against the old file is ok? Or are some parameters needed
> for the diff?

Preferably -u (or failing that -c).

> Where shall I send this "patch"

Right here.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Indeed, kind of like the "ue -> ü" in German, where zuerst can't be
> written zürst, but it's really one of a fairly few exceptions.

Not at all.  `zu' is a common prefix in German, and there are a lot of
words starting with an `e'.

> I don't know if that means that ("oe" ?œ) would be desirable or
> annoying, tho.

In German, you don'y want that (we have e.g. `soeben', `soetwas',
etc.)


    Werner

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Paul R]

Hello Stefan,

Stefan> Never heard of that one, so maybe the French Academy made such
Stefan> a decision at some point, but it hasn't seen much use.
Stefan> Especially since œ didn't even make it into latin-1 and was
Stefan> hence "unavailable" for many years.

Indeed, and this latin-1 story is rather sad. But I am not a linguist,
so I doubles checked through the web and found two ressources that
I think we can trust :

    http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Œ
    http://www.druide.com/points_de_langue_15.html

both saying œ is mandatory.

Stefan> The "Robert" dictionary sorts "œ" as if it were "oe", so it's
Stefan> pretty close to equivalent.

I often read text where œ is written oe, so it is a common mistake in
french readings.

Regards,

-- 
  Paul

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Stefan Monnier]

> Indeed, and this latin-1 story is rather sad. But I am not a linguist,
> so I doubles checked through the web and found two ressources that
> I think we can trust :

>     http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Œ
>     http://www.druide.com/points_de_langue_15.html

> both saying œ is mandatory.

I'm not arguing that "coeur" is as good as "cœur", jus that if you write
"coeur" *very* few people will even notice it.

Stefan> The "Robert" dictionary sorts "œ" as if it were "oe", so it's
Stefan> pretty close to equivalent.
> I often read text where œ is written oe, so it is a common mistake in
> french readings.

Yes, extremely common.  I'd even say that only ones who care are the
same people who get bothered by the "extra space between words" that
often shows up by mistake in Word documents (I'm one of those).


        Stefan

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul R <Paul> writes:

   > Hello Uwe,
   Uwe> I am not sure whether in french oe always should be represented
   Uwe> by the symbol œ?

   > No, it is not. The word « coefficient » is an exemple, it just can't
   > be written « cœfficient ». For what it's worth, also, writing
   > « coeur » is incorrect, it can only be written « cœur ». IOW, 'œ'
   > really is a first class caracter in French and isn't equivalent to
   > 'oe'.

I have been told that combinations such as 
"oeu" --> "œu"

and 

"oei" --> "œi"


So we could think of, 



 ("oei" ?œi)				
 ("oeu" ?œu)				


But I hesitate a little to have a *three* letter combination expanded,
that almost calls for a sort of abbrev mechanism.

Uwe 

Re: Emacs 21/22: french ç and œ

[Agustin Martin]

Uwe Brauer <oub <at> mat.ucm.es> writes:
> 
> As for ispell: I am not sure whether this can be solved on the level of
> lisp or whether somehow the ispell code itself has to be modified.

Sorry for being late here, my mail is failing in a regular basis.

For ispell.el, you need to have a dictionary supporting 'œ'. IIRC, aspell french
dict is declared as latin1 and has oe as two chars, so 'œ' as a single char will
not work.

For ispell depends on the dict you are using, if it contains 'œ', adding an
entry to ispell-local-dictionary-alist with that char and its uppercase in
casechars and not-casechars should help. Check in your distro, as that may have
been already added.