From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Jan D." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tooltips on w32 slow and strange Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:42:24 +0100 Message-ID: References: <016b01c51163$45e1d630$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <16186.217.194.34.123.1108368907.squirrel@wwws.franken.de> <4210762C.9030203@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1108406718 27325 80.91.229.2 (14 Feb 2005 18:45:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:45:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stephan Stahl , Emacs Devel , Lennart Borgman , Jason Rumney Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 14 19:45:17 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D0lDb-0000S6-TE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:45:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D0lTC-00082w-DM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:01:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D0lPK-0005xg-U1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:57:18 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D0lPI-0005wi-PA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:57:18 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D0lPI-0005wZ-80 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:57:16 -0500 Original-Received: from [195.54.107.73] (helo=mxfep02.bredband.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D0lBc-0007z4-3T; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:43:08 -0500 Original-Received: from coolsville.localdomain ([83.226.180.210] [83.226.180.210]) by mxfep02.bredband.com with ESMTP id <20050214184305.PQYO17521.mxfep02.bredband.com@coolsville.localdomain>; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:43:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: Original-To: David Kastrup X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33407 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33407 2005-02-14 kl. 13.26 skrev David Kastrup: > Jason Rumney writes: > >> Stephan Stahl wrote: >> >>> I reported this too a while ago but got no answer: >>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2004-06/msg00060.html >>> >>> As far as i understand tooltips on w32 emacs does not use normal >>> w32-tooltips but special emacs frames that are stripped of everything >>> (modeline, toolbar, minibuffer,...). Maybe this could be changed.. >>> >>> >> Emacs uses frames for its tooltips on all platforms. To change this on >> Windows would make it more difficult to maintain, and would lose >> functionality. > > Are you sure about that? Under X11, tooltips come without any > decoration and without any impact on the focus (I have > focus-follows-mouse policy). I never noticed _any_ problem with them. The focus policy is maintained by the window manager, but Emacs tool tips are created with override redirect on, which basically means that the window manager ignores them, i.e. no decoration, and no focus is given to them. But the X server gives focus to any window when the pointer is over it (the window manager changes this for normal windows), so if you manage to get the pointer over a tool tip, it will receive the focus. This is hard to do though :-) W32 doesn't have a window manager, I guess that is the source of the problem. > > If users of Emacs on Windows experience similar effects, this will > significantly hamper acceptance and usability. So I'd strongly to > those working on the Windows port to see whether something can be done > in that regard. I can't see at all what functionality could possibly > be lost. At least the X11 tooltips on Emacs provide no functionality > whatsoever except popping up some text in a single font AFAICS. No > face support, no clickable areas, nothing. So if there is a function > for popping them up in the system, I can't see what we could lose by > using it. The tool tip frames can have any parameter set on them that an ordinary frame can have, so there is indeed face support and you can have another font also. See the tool tip section in customize. What you will loose is perhaps international characters. Unless of course care is taken to convert from Emacs representation to whatever w32 uses (UTF8?). Jan D.