From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A new user perspective about "Changes for emacs 28" Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 00:50:23 +0300 Message-ID: References: <1ca462fa-0f9e-3c18-6386-f43f49388b2f@gmail.com> <20200907180812.5tfylspp7i6vl4o3@Ergus> <94fda087-a61b-356d-4bb4-791907593246@yandex.ru> <24302cf8-5ac8-4abd-83ce-3e33c51a8beb@default> <6b2eb02e-ec23-4ffe-9e11-5f4532f2bd15@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26371"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams , Ergus , Nicola Manca Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 07 23:51:51 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFP3G-0005u0-T3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 23:51:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34666 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFP2b-0003GM-At for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 17:51:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55352) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFP1x-0002lA-0S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 17:50:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lj1-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::235]:35722) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFP1v-00051c-53 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 17:50:28 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lj1-x235.google.com with SMTP id a15so17617665ljk.2 for ; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 14:50:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1zJXAgD6WUEhwZ3g982lEe9Hq47ok/Hsw1Yx6hZep5s=; b=W2HzHYxYWbke8Ad44gb24Z77+s6TO4/pKGuoi7tTPZ6DYrMvoBQF6sNRphCjfyUJ4y WAVlBFqBQLBbUfWm8sGfR5Bs2rZBgzGa2XPOMYmJPx8qsplqYoDiBlFWalkVdsFMd6Wo MDx9N5BRMfzAZqkj5aGGuNPXkdeJbpraQbSSdbJccIWF1caefPjMpgYfilR+RemcPi2v 6E2jNK1oRkpKaI/5h2WUvlJuTDwprya5488sS14FwwTdodLZZ/oPRL1DcN4c8cBLi7I/ 8/T7pMmc/zvAwLBIs8+Zj8fKLM4FTsMpy9QBMzqfcmIQdV4xlYhH5/N7vzulOGICTIcG 4Xog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1zJXAgD6WUEhwZ3g982lEe9Hq47ok/Hsw1Yx6hZep5s=; b=B3KFt489YthlGyQldVW+upnWx5CKNTqC7M89DsEGtUtkBhYu9dTTs4YtWcU/pZ5uny O6nPSbXkLKcf4i0GpCoMg60/mkYPRPbvg6rebsHzVkK+OehAosO/cv4axtaXeI8fcTvh E8VznzUnJSTMAeuJqkZoxnl383JZ26uJdMFRTf8yVObHhzjrDK2O/nWwBT8QLD4BtDrk rqRRt/ED3FO29FM6l/M7iF5+iT3Xpb1mWoss1j8i/Uwc2gDYUd68WuP3afyv2MucWEWZ kI40A/fevkXMz45oo/+8PvzPgY2/+HbEhZJuxBWOweXKK70GMxptPgvwjl0D9QAv6ZFT R2Eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533HIZoiTHo8jLiJzU43Xfy38hsH5/TR6aXlekgEht5AiccubQl0 4saiTGXBWgtoyw+EZorXocMqGvg4Eng= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNYo5S+hfe3GK9Lb4KfS9P0/1KHqEIsjwP6mHJVqmrnY3uChMjbeZMdLRICgIqut0ek6gFYQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b530:: with SMTP id z16mr11890869ljm.143.1599515424924; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 14:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.104] ([94.229.108.16]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f9sm8099351ljc.129.2020.09.07.14.50.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Sep 2020 14:50:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::235; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x235.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -32 X-Spam_score: -3.3 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.825, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254685 Archived-At: On 08.09.2020 00:39, Drew Adams wrote: >>> So now you're proposing that as the default, instead >>> of the keybindings you proposed earlier today? >> >> Nope. You're welcome to re-read the original message. > > No need to reread it. But you're welcome to, > as many times as you like. I meant my message, the one you replied to. > (Perhaps you're trying to pick a nit, in that you > supported that proposal but didn't initiate it.) Also no. > Do you think ordinary (non-Emacs) Undo plus > Redo is superior to Emacs undo, and for that > reason it should replace it as the default? It is better controllable. E.g., I can floor 'redo' (or undo-tree-redo) and have Emacs quickly reach a buffer state I expected, and go no further. Being more familiar to new users doesn't hurt either. The fact that the current Emacs undo is theoretically more powerful doesn't matter too much when said power is only accessible via an awkward interface.