From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2017 23:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503209475 17682 195.159.176.226 (20 Aug 2017 06:11:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 06:11:15 +0000 (UTC) To: Radon Rosborough , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 20 08:11:11 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1djJRy-00045k-6H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 08:11:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54189 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djJS4-00016r-PE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 02:11:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56183) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djJRo-00015h-Tw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 02:10:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djJRk-0007aV-TB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 02:10:56 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:47105) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djJRk-0007ZT-B0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 02:10:52 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v7K6AjwK018539 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Aug 2017 06:10:46 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v7K6Ajuw017493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Aug 2017 06:10:45 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v7K6Ahsc017429; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 06:10:43 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6774.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217626 Archived-At: > However, if Emacs is started with no init-file, then a default ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > one will be generated and loaded (except in 'emacs -Q'). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What does that mean? Are you perhaps distinguishing between switches -q and -Q? If so, why would the former lead to generating an init file but not the latter? Personally, I don't think Emacs should be generating init files in any case. And certainly not generating an init file that does something with the package system. Emacs should continue with the point of view that you start it, by default, with no init file - no code at all. Nada. I also do not think that Emacs should modify a user's existing init file to initialize intended use of the package system. I stated that in an earlier thread. If the package system needs to write code to a file for you to be able to use it properly then let it use its own file for that, just like Customize does (if you define `custom-file'). It is a bad idea for Emacs to write programmatically to a file that users normally edit manually. The simple case of a user not using packages at all should be preserved, with no monkeying with init files. If a user chooses to use packages, and if the package system needs to save code persistently for the user in order for it to work smoothly, then it should do so in a separate user file, not the init file. (And that should of course only be after a user opts in, saying that s?he wants that.)