Three cheers for Eli!

Three cheers for Eli!

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Emacs.

Thanks to Nicolas for releasing Emacs 26.1.

But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
we've noticed.  Thanks again!

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 17:42:25 +0000
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
> 
> Hello, Emacs.
> 
> Thanks to Nicolas for releasing Emacs 26.1.
> 
> But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
> been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
> trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
> we've noticed.  Thanks again!

You are very welcome, and enjoy.

Thanks.

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Clément Pit-Claudel]

On 2018-05-28 13:42, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Emacs.
> 
> Thanks to Nicolas for releasing Emacs 26.1.
> 
> But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
> been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
> trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
> we've noticed.  Thanks again!

Indeed. The community is incredibly lucky to benefit from your guidance, your hard work, and your dedication, Eli.
Many thanks to you, and to the many volunteers who follow your lead!

Clément.

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[John Wiegley]

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>>>>> "CP" == Clément Pit-Claudel <cpitclaudel@gmail.com> writes:

CP> Indeed. The community is incredibly lucky to benefit from your guidance,
CP> your hard work, and your dedication, Eli. Many thanks to you, and to the
CP> many volunteers who follow your lead!

I'm glad everyone recognizes that Eli is truly the maintainer of Emacs now. My
role has become relegated to easing consultations on this list, due to life
and work pressures.

Please continue to show Eli your warm and encouraging support, as the enormity
of the task he undertakes for our benefit is truly astounding.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

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Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Van L]

> John Wiegley writes:
> 
> I'm glad everyone recognizes that Eli is truly the maintainer of Emacs now.

Thanks. Eli.

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Óscar Fuentes]

Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:

> Hello, Emacs.
>
> Thanks to Nicolas for releasing Emacs 26.1.
>
> But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
> been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
> trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
> we've noticed.  Thanks again!

Ditto.

Thanks also to all who contribute in every form: code changes,
documentation, bug reporters, server maintenance, admnistrativia...

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Stefan Monnier]

> But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
> been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
> trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
> we've noticed.  Thanks again!

Indeed, many many thanks to Eli.


        Stefan

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[T.V Raman]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

Hear, Hear!
>> But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
>> been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
>> trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
>> we've noticed.  Thanks again!
>
> Indeed, many many thanks to Eli.
>
>
>         Stefan
>
>

-- 

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
  > been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
  > trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
  > we've noticed.  Thanks again!

Hear, hear!

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 23:10:36 -0400
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
>   > But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
>   > been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
>   > trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
>   > we've noticed.  Thanks again!
> 
> Hear, hear!

Thank you-all for the kind words and encouragement.

It goes without saying that the results wouldn't be anywhere near what
we have now without the contributions of all the others, whether by
discussions or by coding and documenting.

Thank you very much.

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[George Plymale II]

I'm a bit of a newcomer here, but I just wanted to add that I've also
noticed that Eli has been very helpful and active with questions and
discussions about various things. He's got a very active hand in this
project and seems to be quite helpful in pointing us newcomers in the
right direction.

Thanks a lot, Eli!

- George Plymale II

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Tim Cross]

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Yes, thanks to all contributors and especially those few 'core' members who
give so much. Having been a beneficiary of all this work and following the
list for many years, there are a core set of people who not only dedicate
lots of time in improving emacs, but also hold valuable knowledge and
awareness of Emacs history which they willingly provide  through guidance
and advice to many others. Thanks!

On 30 May 2018 at 04:02, George Plymale II <georgedp@orbitalimpact.com>
wrote:

> I'm a bit of a newcomer here, but I just wanted to add that I've also
> noticed that Eli has been very helpful and active with questions and
> discussions about various things. He's got a very active hand in this
> project and seems to be quite helpful in pointing us newcomers in the
> right direction.
>
> Thanks a lot, Eli!
>
> - George Plymale II
>
>


-- 
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

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Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Basil L. Contovounesios]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> Yes, thanks to all contributors and especially those few 'core'
> members who give so much. Having been a beneficiary of all this work
> and following the list for many years, there are a core set of people
> who not only dedicate lots of time in improving emacs, but also hold
> valuable knowledge and awareness of Emacs history which they willingly
> provide through guidance and advice to many others. Thanks!

I was waiting until someone voiced my precise thoughts to jump on the +1
bandwagon. ;)

Thank you all for your commitment and diligence!

-- 
Basil

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Jefferson Carpenter]

On 5/29/2018 6:02 PM, George Plymale II wrote:
> I'm a bit of a newcomer here, but I just wanted to add that I've also
> noticed that Eli has been very helpful and active with questions and
> discussions about various things. He's got a very active hand in this
> project and seems to be quite helpful in pointing us newcomers in the
> right direction.
> 
> Thanks a lot, Eli!
> 
> - George Plymale II
> 

+1

RE: Three cheers for Eli!

[Drew Adams]

> Thanks to Nicolas for releasing Emacs 26.1.
> 
> But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
> been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
> trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
> we've noticed.  Thanks again!

+1

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Rostislav Svoboda]

Thank you Eli, thank you Open Source world!

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

>>>>> "RS" == Rostislav Svoboda <rostislav.svoboda@gmail.com> writes:

RS> Thank you Eli, thank you Open Source world!

Thank you Eli! Long live the free software!

-- 
                                                Gian
                                       Friends will be friends
                                          right to the end!

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Andreas Röhler]

On 28.05.2018 19:42, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Emacs.
> 
> Thanks to Nicolas for releasing Emacs 26.1.
> 
> But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
> been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
> trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
> we've noticed.  Thanks again!
> 

Yeah, my thanks too!


Watching Emacs development for around ten years now, follow it with 
increasing respect. My special thanks also for Richard and John keeping 
the ship on course at difficult moments.

Thanks all!
Andreas

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Boruch Baum]

 On 28.05.2018 19:42, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
 > Hello, Emacs.
 >
 > Thanks to Nicolas for releasing Emacs 26.1.
 >
 > But also massive thanks to Eli in particular.  The amount of work he's
 > been putting into Emacs over many months is phenomenal, ranging from the
 > trickiest of problems to the most mundane of bug reports.  Yes, Eli,
 > we've noticed.  Thanks again!
 >

+1 !

-- 
hkp://keys.gnupg.net
CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1  7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Dmitry Gutov]

I'd like to join in.

Thanks a lot, Eli!

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:58 AM Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:

> I'd like to join in.
>
> Thanks a lot, Eli!
>

Same here.

I participate in quite a few open source projects and their discussions on
feature addition, bug fixing, etc., but compared elsewhere, Eli's approach
is exemplary.. he takes time to explain his decisions and has convinced me
to accept those in most cases :)

There's a lot to learn from his people and technical skills.

Thanks Eli!
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[John Yates]

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On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:59 AM, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>
wrote:

> There's a lot to learn from his people and technical skills.
>

​I am mostly a lurker, here and in a number of other open source
communities.  Technical brilliance is relatively commonplace.  What is much
rarer is the is level of courtesy and civility traditionally displayed on
this list.  If anything Eli has raised that bar.  I am even more
appreciative in this time when so frequently communication is being
coarsened.

Thank you Eli.

/john

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Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org>
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:57:12 -0400
> Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> ​I am mostly a lurker, here and in a number of other open source communities.  Technical brilliance is
> relatively commonplace.  What is much rarer is the is level of courtesy and civility traditionally displayed on
> this list.  If anything Eli has raised that bar.  I am even more appreciative in this time when so frequently
> communication is being coarsened.

Thank you.  I'm certainly trying, but I'm pleasantly surprised to read
you appreciation, as it means there's some degree of success.

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I participate in quite a few open source projects

Please don't think of Emacs as an "open source project".
That would give you the wrong idea of what our goals are.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[John Yates]

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On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

> Please don't think of Emacs as an "open source project".
> That would give you the wrong idea of what our goals are.
>

​More accurate might have been "free or open source projects".

That said my phrase was not meant to reference in any way the
goals of any of those projects.  Only that each conducts its
development in the open with source code and communications​
accessible to all.

Would you like to suggest some better phrase I might use in
the future when referring to such a collection?

/john

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Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > That said my phrase was not meant to reference in any way the
  > goals of any of those projects.  Only that each conducts its
  > development in the open with source code and communications​
  > accessible to all.

The term "inclusive development projects" might fit your concept.
Or "community-contribution software projects".

In general I choose to highlight freedom, whenever it fits to do so.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[John Yates]

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On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:29 PM, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

> The term "inclusive development projects" might fit your concept.
> Or "community-contribution software projects".
>

​Neither suggestion rolls off my tongue.  How about "community-based"?
​

> In general I choose to highlight freedom, whenever it fits to do so.
>

​For which I am both grateful and supportive.

/john

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Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > The term "inclusive development projects" might fit your concept.
  > > Or "community-contribution software projects".
  > >

  > ​Neither suggestion rolls off my tongue.  How about "community-based"?

That term has various possible interpretations, and some of them do
not fit GNU Emacs.  People might take it to imply a project that is
independent and run by whoever participates.  That is not how a GNU
package works.
  
-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:32:54 -0400
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, kaushal.modi@gmail.com
> 
>   > > The term "inclusive development projects" might fit your concept.
>   > > Or "community-contribution software projects".
>   > >
> 
>   > ​Neither suggestion rolls off my tongue.  How about "community-based"?
> 
> That term has various possible interpretations, and some of them do
> not fit GNU Emacs.  People might take it to imply a project that is
> independent and run by whoever participates.  That is not how a GNU
> package works.

Maybe I'm missing something: is there a problem to say "free software
and open-source projects"?  There's no doubt open-source projects do
exist, it's just that GNU projects are not among them.  But if someone
wants to name them all collectively, where's the problem in that?

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Maybe I'm missing something: is there a problem to say "free software
  > and open-source projects"?

I don't think it is a problem.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-06-03, at 16:58, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> Maybe I'm missing something: is there a problem to say "free software
> and open-source projects"?  There's no doubt open-source projects do
> exist, it's just that GNU projects are not among them.  But if someone
> wants to name them all collectively, where's the problem in that?

Out of curiosity: why aren't GNU projects open-source?  I know RMS
dislikes the term, but the source of GNU projects is available on the
Internet, so technically they should count, no?

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Amin Bandali]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> Out of curiosity: why aren't GNU projects open-source?  I know RMS
> dislikes the term, but the source of GNU projects is available on the
> Internet, so technically they should count, no?

GNU projects are licensed under the GPL.  Though GPL is an "OSI
approved" license, and so technically an "open source" license,
calling it that comes way short of conveying what it stands for.

Instead of attempting to explain it myself, I'll refer you to
this [0] article by RMS, called Why Open Source misses the point
of Free Software, which explains it much better than I could.

[0]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html

-amin

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-06-04, at 07:09, Amin Bandali <aminb@gnu.org> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> Out of curiosity: why aren't GNU projects open-source?  I know RMS
>> dislikes the term, but the source of GNU projects is available on the
>> Internet, so technically they should count, no?
>
> GNU projects are licensed under the GPL.  Though GPL is an "OSI
> approved" license, and so technically an "open source" license,
> calling it that comes way short of conveying what it stands for.
>
> Instead of attempting to explain it myself, I'll refer you to
> this [0] article by RMS, called Why Open Source misses the point
> of Free Software, which explains it much better than I could.

I understand that, but Eli said

> There's no doubt open-source projects do
> exist, it's just that GNU projects are not among them.

I thought that GNU projects are rather in the intersection of "free
software" (in FSF sense) and open-source.  That sentence confuses me.

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Van L]

> Marcin Borkowski writes:
> 
> That sentence confuses me.

(I could be wrong. I have no training in the field of ,law,)
This matter would be settled like how Trump and Mueller are
going.

—
(if '(you like avocado on toast)
    '(then you'll like Daniel Stone's "The Food Explorer".))

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2018 10:30:09 +0200
> Cc: rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kaushal.modi@gmail.com,
> 	Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, john@yates-sheets.org
> 
> > Instead of attempting to explain it myself, I'll refer you to
> > this [0] article by RMS, called Why Open Source misses the point
> > of Free Software, which explains it much better than I could.
> 
> I understand that, but Eli said
> 
> > There's no doubt open-source projects do
> > exist, it's just that GNU projects are not among them.
> 
> I thought that GNU projects are rather in the intersection of "free
> software" (in FSF sense) and open-source.  That sentence confuses me.

If yiu understand what Richard wrote in the article pointed to by
Amin, then I don't see how it could confuse you.  the GNU project
explicitly does NOT want its software to be labeled "open-source".

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-06-04, at 17:49, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

>> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
>> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2018 10:30:09 +0200
>> Cc: rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kaushal.modi@gmail.com,
>> 	Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, john@yates-sheets.org
>>
>> > Instead of attempting to explain it myself, I'll refer you to
>> > this [0] article by RMS, called Why Open Source misses the point
>> > of Free Software, which explains it much better than I could.
>>
>> I understand that, but Eli said
>>
>> > There's no doubt open-source projects do
>> > exist, it's just that GNU projects are not among them.
>>
>> I thought that GNU projects are rather in the intersection of "free
>> software" (in FSF sense) and open-source.  That sentence confuses me.
>
> If yiu understand what Richard wrote in the article pointed to by
> Amin, then I don't see how it could confuse you.  the GNU project
> explicitly does NOT want its software to be labeled "open-source".

OK, I think I get it now.

GNU _is_ open-source (because it satisfies the definition), but doesn't
_like_ being called like that, since this gives false impression due to
terms like "open-source" being quite loaded.

That makes perfect sense, although I'm not sure whether I like it.  (I
mean it exactly as I have written, without any irony - I am really not
sure.)

Thanks,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[João Távora]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> GNU _is_ open-source (because it satisfies the definition), but doesn't
> _like_ being called like that, since this gives false impression due to
> terms like "open-source" being quite loaded.
> 
At the risk of sounding quite rude and assuring it's not my intention at
all: do you _like_ to be called an animal?

João

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-06-07, at 20:00, João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> GNU _is_ open-source (because it satisfies the definition), but doesn't
>> _like_ being called like that, since this gives false impression due to
>> terms like "open-source" being quite loaded.
>> 
> At the risk of sounding quite rude and assuring it's not my intention at
> all: do you _like_ to be called an animal?

Wow, I didn't see that coming.  Even if the analogy is slightly flawed,
point taken.  I'm now leaning more to being convinced that insisting on
not being called open-source is a good idea.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Joshua Branson]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> On 2018-06-07, at 20:00, João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>>
>>> GNU _is_ open-source (because it satisfies the definition), but doesn't
>>> _like_ being called like that, since this gives false impression due to
>>> terms like "open-source" being quite loaded.
>>> 
>> At the risk of sounding quite rude and assuring it's not my intention at
>> all: do you _like_ to be called an animal?
>
> Wow, I didn't see that coming.  Even if the analogy is slightly flawed,
> point taken.  I'm now leaning more to being convinced that insisting on
> not being called open-source is a good idea.

From someone, who is not a developer,  I wonder if the term "free
software", ought to have "freedom" or "ethical" in the name.  Many
English speakers assume that "Free Software" is gratis.  Maybe we could
call it "Ethical Software" or "Libre Source".  

>
> Best,

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

We often add "Libre" after "Free" to clarify its intended meaning.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > At the risk of sounding quite rude and assuring it's not my intention at
  > > all: do you _like_ to be called an animal?

  > Wow, I didn't see that coming.  Even if the analogy is slightly flawed,
  > point taken.

I think it is a very good analogy.  Every human being is, in fact, an
animal.  (I doubt any plants, fungi, or unicellular organisms are
reading this message.)  Nonetheless, calling someone an "animal" has
another meaning, and people don't like to be called "animals".

Calling the person a "Republican" -- who actually disagrees with that
party -- is perhaps a closer analogy.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-06-12, at 02:33, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > > At the risk of sounding quite rude and assuring it's not my intention at
>   > > all: do you _like_ to be called an animal?
>
>   > Wow, I didn't see that coming.  Even if the analogy is slightly flawed,
>   > point taken.
>
> I think it is a very good analogy.  Every human being is, in fact, an
> animal.  (I doubt any plants, fungi, or unicellular organisms are
> reading this message.)  Nonetheless, calling someone an "animal" has
> another meaning, and people don't like to be called "animals".

As I said, I agree the analogy is good (even if it has some flaws).

> Calling the person a "Republican" -- who actually disagrees with that
> party -- is perhaps a closer analogy.

I actually think it is much worse.  For starters, while all humans are
(at least in certain technical sense) animals, they are so much more
that calling them "animals" is offensive.  That is not true of any
political party.  Last but not least, what is truly offensive is calling
someone "left-wing" (admittedly, both Republican and Democratic parties
in the US are quite strongly left-wing, but Democrats seem to be much
worse in that regard).

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Clément Pit-Claudel]

On 2018-06-15 13:00, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Last but not least, what is truly offensive is calling someone
> "left-wing" (admittedly, both Republican and Democratic parties in
> the US are quite strongly left-wing, but Democrats seem to be much
> worse in that regard).

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-06-15, at 19:44, Clément Pit-Claudel <cpitclaudel@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2018-06-15 13:00, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> Last but not least, what is truly offensive is calling someone
>> "left-wing" (admittedly, both Republican and Democratic parties in
>> the US are quite strongly left-wing, but Democrats seem to be much
>> worse in that regard).
>
> Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Yep, pretty much like Richard's opinion he shared with us earlier (only
more true).  (Although both Republicans and Democrats being pretty much
left-wing is, I guess, beyond any discussion.)

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[João Távora]

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On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:

> > Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
> Yep, pretty much like Richard's opinion he shared with us earlier (only
> more true).  (Although both Republicans and Democrats being pretty much
> left-wing is, I guess, beyond any discussion.)


Sure sure. Buncha hippies.

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Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I thought that GNU projects are rather in the intersection of "free
  > software" (in FSF sense) and open-source.  That sentence confuses me.

Every GNU package satisfies the practical criterion of open source.
However, "open source" also stands for ideas which disagree deeply
with the ideas of the free software movement.  (That was no accident:
it was intended for that purpose.)

Thus, simply describing a GNU package as "open source" is likely to
give people a very clear, but incorrect, idea of what we're trying to
do.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Three cheers for Eli!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-06-05, at 01:29, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > I thought that GNU projects are rather in the intersection of "free
>   > software" (in FSF sense) and open-source.  That sentence confuses me.
>
> Every GNU package satisfies the practical criterion of open source.
> However, "open source" also stands for ideas which disagree deeply
> with the ideas of the free software movement.  (That was no accident:
> it was intended for that purpose.)
>
> Thus, simply describing a GNU package as "open source" is likely to
> give people a very clear, but incorrect, idea of what we're trying to
> do.

Thanks, as I have written in another message a minute ago, I get it now.

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl