From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
juri@linkov.net, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Confused by y-or-n-p
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 09:41:09 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.NEB.2.22.394.2101060931080453.18913@sdf.lonestar.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvh7nuvr0y.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
>> I agree with you that this is already happening in the vast majority of
>> cases, so why would it be problematic to make this a rule, that in
>> principle any change to Emacs' behavior should provide a way to
>> re-enable the old behavior? IIUC that's all Richard wants. Of course
>> that rule would not apply to bugfixes, and exceptions would be possible
>> with the explicit approval of a maintainer.
>
> The problem is that I disagree with your "Of course": the whole
> difficulty is to decide which change falls in this category.
>
> The problem is not that we don't follow the rule or that we don't have
> such a rule. It's that there's no hard-and-fast way to decide where
> that rule should apply: it's a judgment call and often this call is
> non-trivial (what one person calls "feature" qualifies as "bug fix" for
> another, what should be a cosmetic change may end up unexpectedly
> changing behavior), which is why sometimes it takes feedback from users
> to realize we got it wrong.
>
A rule is not a mathematical law, it's an action guideline. Such a rule
would avoid having developers start working on something thinking that
scratching the current state of affairs to create something they believe
is better without thinking about backwards compatibility is okay.
This does happen, and this can lead and does lead to unnecessary disputes
(one is underway), that could be avoided with such a rule.
By the way, the feedback in this case came from Richard, who wanted the
old behavior back, and he got it back in a few days. I'm curious whether
this would have happened if the feedback had been sent by a random user.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-01-06 9:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 210+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-12-23 15:24 Confused by y-or-n-p Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-23 16:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-23 17:04 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-23 17:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-23 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-23 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 4:29 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-23 19:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-12-23 19:53 ` Karl Fogel
2020-12-23 20:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-24 18:26 ` Karl Fogel
2020-12-24 5:56 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-24 5:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-24 6:06 ` David Masterson
2020-12-24 16:49 ` João Távora
2020-12-24 15:38 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-24 20:47 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-25 7:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 9:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-25 11:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 13:20 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 11:01 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-26 13:41 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-27 16:25 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-27 17:16 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-28 8:48 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-27 18:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 8:52 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-28 9:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 17:06 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-28 17:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-30 9:54 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 13:36 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 7:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-02 7:22 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-02 17:06 ` Drew Adams
2021-01-02 17:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-03 6:06 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 5:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 6:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 7:54 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-04 9:21 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 9:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 9:55 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 11:28 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 14:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-04 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 15:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 8:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-05 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 17:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 18:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 18:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 8:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-06 5:02 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 16:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 17:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:20 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 17:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 18:52 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-05 8:33 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 18:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 17:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-05 6:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 6:35 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 10:28 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 17:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:28 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 22:18 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-05 14:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 0:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 3:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 9:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 15:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:46 ` Tassilo Horn
2021-01-06 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 16:36 ` Tassilo Horn
2021-01-06 16:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 23:57 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 9:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-08 6:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 7:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-13 15:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 6:29 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 8:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-05 6:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-07 7:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 15:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-13 15:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-13 16:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-15 5:28 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-15 7:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-17 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 15:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-05 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 21:18 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-07 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 5:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 6:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 10:28 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 11:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-04 11:35 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 12:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-04 13:10 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 17:21 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-05 10:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-05 11:10 ` tomas
2021-01-05 15:34 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 15:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 22:17 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-05 11:44 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-05 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 18:18 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-05 6:44 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 18:03 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-14 8:50 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-15 5:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 15:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 6:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 0:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 0:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 9:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. [this message]
2021-01-06 11:06 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-06 15:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:46 ` Drew Adams
2021-01-06 23:57 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 9:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-07 10:03 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 10:29 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-09 6:34 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 8:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 14:06 ` Following etc/NEWS on the development branch (was: Confused by y-or-n-p) Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-01-09 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 16:05 ` Following etc/NEWS on the development branch Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Confused by y-or-n-p Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-10 6:07 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 23:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-08 2:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-08 7:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 6:44 ` Stealing minibuffers [Was: Confused by y-or-n-p] Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-09 10:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:32 ` Confused by y-or-n-p Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:52 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:52 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 3:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 5:26 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-28 5:51 ` Drew Adams
2020-12-28 8:59 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-27 5:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-25 9:23 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-25 11:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 8:42 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-25 11:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 13:20 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:41 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2020-12-27 5:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-26 13:45 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-27 5:46 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 18:30 ` Drew Adams
2020-12-25 4:40 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-25 8:42 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-28 17:09 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-29 8:53 ` martin rudalics
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