From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: How to make Emacs popular again. Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 22:01:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200926163008.GS1349@protected.rcdrun.com> <749c3394-ec9a-43a5-aad6-942a5583d072@default> Reply-To: Gregory Heytings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5097"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (NEB 394 2020-01-19) Cc: Robert Pluim , emacs-devel@gnu.org, bobnewell@bobnewell.net, Richard Stallman , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 09 00:02:47 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQdzr-0001DL-6V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2020 00:02:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38078 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQdzp-0004NB-Uy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 18:02:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33640) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQdyc-0003v2-L0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 18:01:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:59326) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQdya-0001EC-Bd; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 18:01:30 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:ghe@otaku.sdf.org [205.166.94.8]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 098M1KxJ022791 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Thu, 8 Oct 2020 22:01:21 GMT Original-Received: (from ghe@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 098M1KtA025182; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 22:01:20 GMT In-Reply-To: <749c3394-ec9a-43a5-aad6-942a5583d072@default> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=ghe@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/08 15:58:48 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257230 Archived-At: >> C-h f kill-line >> put point somewhere on 'kill-line' in the docstring >> C-h S >> >> Now making that more widely known would help, I think. > > Yes. A start is to what I do in `help-mode+.el': change the help-echo > on a linked symbol, so it includes mention of `C-h S'. This trivial > change could be made to `help-mode.el'. > > IOW, instead of just > > "mouse-2, RET: describe this symbol" > > say: > > "mouse-2, RET: describe, C-h S RET: check manual" > This help-echo is not present in all help buffers, I see it only in C-h m (describe-mode) buffers. And it is necessary to put point on the symbol before pressing C-h S RET. Wouldn't a "See also chapter N ZZZZ in the Emacs manual." and/or "For programmers, see also chapter N ZZZZ in the Emacs Lisp manual." (with hyperlinks) at the end of ordinary help buffers be much more useful? I can only speak for myself, but this is what I would have found useful when I started using Emacs.