From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again. Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 14:54:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200926163008.GS1349@protected.rcdrun.com> Reply-To: Gregory Heytings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15978"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (NEB 394 2020-01-19) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Richard Stallman , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= , bobnewell@bobnewell.net To: Robert Pluim Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 08 16:55:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQXJv-00043c-Ll for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 16:55:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60520 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQXJu-0000M0-Ox for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:55:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44114) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQXJE-0008Ly-5U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:54:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:49301) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQXJB-0001BI-Uk; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:54:19 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:ghe@otaku.sdf.org [205.166.94.8]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 098EsB6D026970 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Thu, 8 Oct 2020 14:54:12 GMT Original-Received: (from ghe@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 098EsXLa014276; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 14:54:33 GMT In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=ghe@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/08 10:22:09 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257210 Archived-At: >>>> I also didn't read the manual very often, because I didn't find it >>>> easily. >>> >>> Can you suggest a way to make that easier for others in the future? >>> >> >> My suggestion would be to add links in the docstrings to the relevant >> chapter in the Emacs and Emacs Lisp manuals. Three examples: >> >> kill-line would have a link to (info "(emacs)Killing") >> >> kill-buffer would have two links, one to (info "(emacs)Buffers") and >> another to (info "(elisp)Buffers") >> >> call-process would have a link to (info "(elisp)Processes") >> >> I think a link to the relevant chapter, as in the examples above, is >> better than a link to the relevant section or subsection. With this, >> users who follow that link would find more information about the >> general context of the command or function, and not just a similar >> documentation. > > Try > > C-h f kill-line > put point somewhere on 'kill-line' in the docstring > C-h S > > Now making that more widely known would help, I think. > Well, that doesn't quite do what I suggest. It only finds the symbol in the Emacs manual (AFAICS it does not search in the Elisp manual), and what you find when you do this on a command is something that much resembles what you find in the docstring, so it doesn't look like useful information, it looks redundant. As I said, I think entering the chapter would be much more useful, as it would give the user the feeling that there is more information there.