From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users (was: Re: Gather a list of confusions beginner tend to have) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:46:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <32292E31-1603-4EF9-B772-EBD378C32F76@gmail.com> <83o8mcfjxb.fsf@gnu.org> <83een8fi2u.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Gregory Heytings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4588"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (NEB 394 2020-01-19) Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 11 17:47:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGlGW-000151-8Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 17:47:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48738 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGlGV-0007Ny-AX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 11:47:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49736) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGlFr-0006vH-Al for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 11:46:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:54106) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGlFo-0001mL-WB; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 11:46:27 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:ghe@faeroes.freeshell.org [205.166.94.9]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 08BFkH4m012636 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:46:18 GMT Original-Received: (from ghe@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 08BFkTBg011022; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:46:29 GMT In-Reply-To: <83een8fi2u.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=ghe@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/11 09:22:45 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255208 Archived-At: >>> But the tutorial is not just about keybindings. It explains a lot of >>> other turf, mainly the important concepts: buffer, window, mode line, >>> etc. >> >> A new user does not need to understand those subtleties. > > I wouldn't call these basics "subtleties". They are the most > fundamental terminology in Emacs. > They are indeed, I'm not denying this. My point of view here is: what are the most essential things that a user needs to know to use Emacs if we have no more than three minutes? Clearly (at least to me) it is possible to use Emacs without knowing what a "buffer" or a "window" is. > >> He already has an intuitive notion of what a buffer and a window are, >> which suffices to start using Emacs. > > He does? Where from? Windows mean something else in the other apps, > and buffers are not available in most of them. > Indeed "window" mean something else for other apps, but why is this important for a new user who just wants to edit files? There are other apps in which the screen is splitted in different areas, so he would not be surprised when this happens. And "buffers" are of course available in many apps, in most office suites (and text editors) you can just create a file with "new" and it's "something that does not correspond to a file (yet)". > >> BTW, there is another option that I would add in screen 3: >> tab-line-mode. > > Is the tab-line really such an important feature? If so, why isn't it > turned on by default? > I'm not saying that tab-line is an important feature. It's not an important feature for you or me, but it's common in many apps (web browsers, text editors) to have a tab-line on which one can click to navigate between "buffers".