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Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 15:44:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87tuwabm5a.fsf@gnus.org> <87wo13q9d2.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Reply-To: Gregory Heytings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-212064758-1846384486-1599664926=:24315" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4200"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (NEB 394 2020-01-19) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F_Kayaalp?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 17:45:38 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2Hx-0000wv-Io for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 17:45:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38382 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2Hw-0008H5-L9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 11:45:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45378) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2H5-0006yg-B0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 11:44:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:51522) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2H2-0000eu-3d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 11:44:43 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:ghe@faeroes.freeshell.org [205.166.94.9]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 089FiRf1008199 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 9 Sep 2020 15:44:27 GMT Original-Received: (from ghe@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 089FicrO024225; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 15:44:38 GMT In-Reply-To: <87wo13q9d2.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Content-ID: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=ghe@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/09 11:44:38 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? 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The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---212064758-1846384486-1599664926=:24315 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: > >> Would it not be better to have a "guided tour" (something like C-h t,=20 >> but shorter and more "modern") for first-time users (those without a=20 >> .emacs / .emacs.d)? This is quite common in "modern" software, so it=20 >> would not surprise anyone. > [...] >> (In fact, it would perhaps make sense to create a few guided tours,=20 >> with an initial question "Are you a programmer? a scientist? a teacher?= =20 >> a writer?" with which the set of options could be narrowed.) > > Why not instead just have nicer introductory material? E.g. videos that= =20 > walk through initial customisation for different setups, that discuss=20 > and explain things, talk about tangents. > That's too complex IMO. I at least would never have the patience to watch= =20 N videos to discover such things. If the target is users who just give=20 Emacs a try, as we all do from time to time for programs we don't know,=20 expecting that they would first watch videos (or to read introductory=20 material) sets the bar way too high. > > The wizard idea from another thread is nice, but I=A2m not a fan of a=20 > whole guided tour. Most probably people would want to skip it. A=20 > blocker just as your first boot a program is not nice. > I was thinking of something very simple, with say five screens. There are= =20 at least two examples I have in mind and which I find rather pleasing to=20 go through: the Debian installer and the macOS installer. A rough draft: Screen 1: Welcome! Please tell us something about you: are you (a) a=20 programmer, (b) a teacher, (c) ... Screen 2: Choose a theme (font + colors). Screen 3: A few (at most twenty) common options to turn on or off, with a= =20 short explanation for each option. "cua-mode" is a good candidate for=20 this screen. A button "Other options" could open another similar screen=20 with a few other less common options to turn on or off. Screen 4: Some basic explanations: what "C-" and "M-" mean, what is the=20 minibuffer, ... Screen 5: Thank you and welcome on board! You'll find a list of=20 extensions that you may find useful in the menu "Extensions". The menu "Extensions" would be populated depending on the user kind=20 selected in screen 1. ---212064758-1846384486-1599664926=:24315--