From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 11:22:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87tuwabm5a.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: Gregory Heytings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2592"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (NEB 394 2020-01-19) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 13:23:30 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFyCI-0000ZN-MF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 13:23:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45516 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFyCH-0007KS-PL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 07:23:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58916) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFyBk-0006tP-Bc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 07:22:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:54008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFyBh-0005rB-Ih for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 07:22:56 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:ghe@faeroes.freeshell.org [205.166.94.9]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 089BMipB025504 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 9 Sep 2020 11:22:44 GMT Original-Received: (from ghe@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 089BMsvT018135; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 11:22:54 GMT In-Reply-To: <87tuwabm5a.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=ghe@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/09 07:22:47 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254862 Archived-At: > > Instead of discussing new, radical defaults (which I don't think are > going to go anywhere, because annoying older users isn't nice), we could > just put a button on the opening splash page saying > > Current theme: Classic. Click HERE to get the super-cool rad one. > > And then the HERE could enable whatever the kids these days want, and it > could be ALL the mod cons. > Would it not be better to have a "guided tour" (something like C-h t, but shorter and more "modern") for first-time users (those without a .emacs / .emacs.d)? This is quite common in "modern" software, so it would not surprise anyone. During that "guided tour" the user could select a number of options, e.g. cua-mode, evil-mode, which-key, hl-line, show-paren-mode, a theme (customize-themes is there since Emacs 24, with a number builtin themes, currently sixteen), and these options would be written in their .emacs file. (In fact, it would perhaps make sense to create a few guided tours, with an initial question "Are you a programmer? a scientist? a teacher? a writer?" with which the set of options could be narrowed.) With this it would be unnecessary to change any of the defaults, yet newcomers would quickly be able to tailor some aspects of Emacs to their needs. A side-effect is that the discussions here would perhaps be less passionated. "Should feature X be offered as an option to first-time users?" may lead to more serene discussions than "Should feature X become a default in future Emacs versions?"