From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2020 07:46:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87tuwabm5a.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: Gregory Heytings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33704"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (NEB 394 2020-01-19) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 07 09:47:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFBrn-0008gj-2D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 09:47:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41304 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFBrm-0002lq-5M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 03:47:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53826) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFBr2-0002MD-27 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 03:46:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:58929) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFBqz-0004M5-Dv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 03:46:19 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:ghe@faeroes.freeshell.org [205.166.94.9]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 0877kBEK027367 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Mon, 7 Sep 2020 07:46:11 GMT Original-Received: (from ghe@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 0877kKdk029511; Mon, 7 Sep 2020 07:46:20 GMT In-Reply-To: <87tuwabm5a.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=ghe@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/07 02:54:46 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254615 Archived-At: > > Instead of discussing new, radical defaults (which I don't think are > going to go anywhere, because annoying older users isn't nice), we could > just put a button on the opening splash page saying > > Current theme: Classic. Click HERE to get the super-cool rad one. > > And then the HERE could enable whatever the kids these days want, and it > could be ALL the mod cons. > I could perhaps agree with this (except perhaps that I would rephrase "to get the super-cool..." as "to activate the super-cool..."). But as Eli noted nobody has done this so far. And in fact I'm not sure it would really improve the "adoption rate". There are plenty of example configurations available (for example Spacemacs), and someone who would not want to make the effort of trying to find a configuration that suits their needs would quickly switch to another trendy editor anyway. FWIW, my own experience with this kind of tools is that those who do not have initially a good non-technical reason to use it (for example "I want to be a guru", "Someone I admire uses that tool", "It is one of the freest free software", "It is based on Lisp and I love Lisp", "I want to have the freedom to change everything to make it work exactly as I want", "I like minimal user interfaces", "I want to do as much as possible without using a mouse", ...) will not use it in the long term. This external motivation is necessary to "climb the learning curve", so to speak, and "better" defaults will have no influence on it.