From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:59:36 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83imckh9yt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft7oh63h.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911121919.5oljwsot4g3bm7zq@Ergus> <83a6xwh4o3.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911125744.x7at74mr4dyrcktf@Ergus> <83zh5wfor3.fsf@gnu.org> <92d20285-2141-2ef3-da09-432aeb3ecec4@yandex.ru> <20200911211709.v2o6mbbhb6oz4o3b@Ergus> <4d7167ad-26c1-49a6-5613-3f44d48decff@yandex.ru> <20200912020142.llwb3l6gugnnygh2@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39579"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, Eli Zaretskii , drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 15:00:23 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH58f-000ABu-Jc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:00:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44076 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH58e-0004Je-Lb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43856) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH583-0003uP-0i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 08:59:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::131]:42269) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH581-0002Oe-5G; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 08:59:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id b12so8628150lfp.9; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 05:59:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VHzFI1M1Y/EJeEec8LUSK9Z3u1kDeL5E1JrEQJAXzr4=; b=gBn0GmywfU9hjAv7gO+DFLBXmUdGxpsrMjw1k2on1OfgQjUr6D8anCysg1FPwrXNGo Y6Jq2fOxg2NrXvO1I5UDFL8YHVKtFPJZD7auFyNK2AS0z9IYV0937nP2JvA/GDoVNQrA 90n6k2+LpHn+k3J6QgP2F65NoZ6oZa1kluyHC418y9FQzrbONe1IOWIZwxV86gJ8UUPL y68ua1fVRKpZ8GWgAJ+9SzuWNSk4QIVsNXh/6abYy6yIP3EL4Y0HFJ9aiRksNCWr2fqG KAwd/S3cLamfoVEF8kti6aSavJy1EX9puNoH9oSi0wFMf85dbGxCPchYwoUJlwxS6fK4 0K3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VHzFI1M1Y/EJeEec8LUSK9Z3u1kDeL5E1JrEQJAXzr4=; b=BpksLRGrS96CXwELjxqkBL3NbcNzWvhAQbtFQgTuBpVuVe77UxpDWBeXYcA7QbyTMP sOAlaG0Qj58t6q8LaFlysgZ6xCPhUWkMljxksNyrqvhKvIAcrzauYjLhNNWpP8ULBUPa iEYHywjGTOE+nz/mh7jMhUq2c1lvBEzHVn6kCymX9DMxWpgfF4+QbkvQ3HLMcIXUBJEk /IhYERYccEU83ykzAdxkWVfp84Izxhps6l1+d4iJZa8+ypxgcOCBA3MNKyk6CMcxCdDq 2A/Tw48P6u2CgcQ6ZMioBD5r07CerezHBILl65YhCo12p+gz9/p6eSoAwj+6fZFVyqvk Tlcw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533uyqzElzlzdiyXOW9oJ8nXlJ88+aG5z0s2k1BwDklNB2KrTkE9 ZGnkxy1KrM1VbxAu0XH7ZmcKf9tqrYU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzbPTcct1yHTRuPrlsmXKzGawkhgdVKszuNkbmaVhtLG60f7nfZfqmwa0vXD6Cyvk42V1JlEA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:be02:: with SMTP id o2mr1688680lff.265.1599915578670; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.104] ([94.229.108.16]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id y9sm1458789lji.137.2020.09.12.05.59.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Sep 2020 05:59:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200912020142.llwb3l6gugnnygh2@Ergus> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::131; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x131.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -29 X-Spam_score: -3.0 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.543, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255335 Archived-At: On 12.09.2020 05:01, Ergus wrote: > Actually the implementation is barely trivial; something like this > should work (including tool-bar and menu-bar) because the redo icon is > already there; so we only add the bindings for it until it will be added > by default: I agree it is simple, but a concrete patch would be another step toward the goal. > (defvar undo-redo-mode-map >   (let ((map (make-sparse-keymap))) >     (define-key map [remap undo] 'undo-only) >     (define-key map (kbd "C-?") 'undo-redo) >     (define-key map (kbd "M-_") 'undo-redo) >     map)) > > (define-minor-mode undo-redo-mode >   "Replace undo with undo-only and enables undo-redo." >   :global t >   :keymap undo-redo-mode-map >   :group 'undo >   ) > > As it seems like the redo will stay by default as well as the bindings, > then the mode is probably not needed and the user could just bind: Indeed, so IMO the mode should affect the toolbar and the menu as well. > (define-key global-map [remap undo] 'undo-only) > > if he don't like to use the default undo. That's a decent point, but this setup is missing the new bindings for undo-redo. It also won't help with the low discoverability that undo-only and undo-redo have. And since the main moment when we would expect someone to want this is just when they are becoming familiar with Emacs, making it as easy as possible should be the goal. > If we remove the redo from the menu and toolbar and or the default > bindings; then some other small changes will be needed and will make > sense to have this mode. But so far nobody complained about the redo > icon and personally I don't really care too much. If we're talking about existing, experienced users such as you and I, we might as well leave _everything_ as is, and customize whatever bits in the init scripts. But we're probably talking about new user experience.