From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [Emacs-diffs] scratch/widen-less a4ba846: Replace prog-widen with consolidating widen calls Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 22:19:25 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20171129233237.27462.23351@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <27985594-3bb4-ce88-8928-2ccfeac13eae@yandex.ru> <20171201154913.GB3840@ACM> <1e542021-e389-cca4-6acd-349efddb2652@yandex.ru> <20171201223529.GG3840@ACM> <4a94ec5c-efdd-50f1-ff4d-277f5f45c2df@yandex.ru> <83lgil1qme.fsf@gnu.org> <83d13x1j2s.fsf@gnu.org> <34abea95-c7f7-e8fa-8407-8c2fd2a4cfe1@yandex.ru> <83y3mkzw1n.fsf@gnu.org> <83mv2zzv7z.fsf@gnu.org> <83o9nexy48.fsf@gnu.org> <83d13uxug5.fsf@gnu.org> <41e3f343-816f-d2db-6575-6ef43d54957f@yandex.ru> <838tecuqjb.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512937181 18096 195.159.176.226 (10 Dec 2017 20:19:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:19:41 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:58.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/58.0 To: Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 10 21:19:34 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eO84T-0004OB-Mo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 21:19:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49625 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eO84a-0005hE-Pz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:19:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45414) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eO84T-0005h9-Tt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:19:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eO84P-00008Y-3l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:19:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wr0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::236]:33297) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eO84O-00007R-Rn; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:19:29 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-x236.google.com with SMTP id v22so15561768wrb.0; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:19:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IVOXKOBtFAkLrUAVw6iClUNDe3vu7UkDYTNHxgBUBTQ=; b=O0LthbdLi5ueHmg5goEcrGx+qIDmIAx0MbREmJAJSW2ZYZC0aHzkrf07lF8w1I7SIs MI+EzERN8PAdkkD7068BIKuO8hmMOlpxYlYMgHha3a9xX077KO74HgGcbA2SIl617oth nTHZuhy+OCgU1I6Yck4YbhOE97wWwLeprLaEOdP4nKgFmZu+vnugbpfisu6VKzUJtgBi gs4CglgQ+Z98y4KZ8xh3oSL2imJ+ZjYNWDKJxObW3/0eKWg8e3fHIPv3e/WdjlO5wZz0 s+NdZnWZTdy9yhBTk6rRpWp1ejkXYj4vBJAnGCmkxDAc5XBOIJEFs4fqupSyZDTAu35B 7LGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IVOXKOBtFAkLrUAVw6iClUNDe3vu7UkDYTNHxgBUBTQ=; b=b85dGF/ccHOcN5mvzgIhZkCYICmTD6mczQU21O2uxGIlN4TnMsUBN4sMYVjmjfUACT dOvJdwPA9b4A5gWp68p5KKdIOfCzsjrV2AmwX2zBg1/KAm4+OqpUX9dUf1vdmDQlAMoP JKQjA+SGsr7ZG9tqNtAFDZQ9v8v4Y41jObLt8/7aKWaqOiR1hlyP81aSkZWT83BKDFgF e3UBYAmvxMTaL6rbDEiVQqaFmb4sUWXOSjbNjJiUTKqjoLnXr0SvIwiP0mLmC5esQQaA sY3gDRSKuL3xo4jhX5jcY5owDkNzT52R2URmcrElZqzsnf8zij5HukoZz7hrHCNp0LV2 SXDg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5fIKlzSvikrDyB4aaq9rI7nydJsALT2jEytIkvRkXD5VkfwDk1 /PRS3oQRcjIt9otOJv9qxZFvaaoF X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMa6RHpRjAgyYI6PJ5hMfQPoTlTzV5wTChf8l/guhP105vlwiFU07lMEjdJa629xNGmEPpu2pA== X-Received: by 10.223.141.180 with SMTP id o49mr34903620wrb.35.1512937167593; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:19:27 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([185.105.174.193]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 67sm1867012wmq.38.2017.12.10.12.19.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:19:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220857 Archived-At: Hi John! Glad you could join us. On 12/9/17 7:56 PM, John Wiegley wrote: >>>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: > > EZ> And please keep in mind that 2 years without any additional users is not > EZ> long enough to prove that this feature is useless. Let's also keep in mind > EZ> that this feature was reviewed at the time and admitted into Emacs, which > EZ> means Stefan did think at least back then that it could be useful in > EZ> practice. We should give people a chance before deciding it is completely > EZ> useless and worthy of removal. > > I agree with Eli here. It's very hard for any one person, with their own > particular way of using Emacs, and communication channels they pay attention > to, to know for certain what other people are using a feature for -- or if > they're using it at all. What "one person"? The expected uptick in support and users I'm talking about would have to be inside Emacs. Because that's where the most popular and important major modes are. And yet, nothing happened since the original feature's addition. > Lest we forget: > > https://xkcd.com/1172/ > > So unless there's a more compelling reason, like that it's getting in your > way, we'd need a stronger argument to reverse an agreed-upon decision that's > only 2 years old. Let me remind you of the previous (shorter) discussion on this subject: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-03/msg01425.html A "better answer", if I do say so myself, has been proposed. Even Stefan, who objected to the original removal, is onboard. And yet, it's not being accepted. So tell me, please, which of these "agreed-upon decisions" are we going to reverse? One that Stefan made and would now prefer to go back on, or the one that you made yourself? (Sorry for getting all political, but the amount of messages in this thread is getting ridiculous. I did not sign up for this much wasted time.)