From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:48:46 +0300 (IDT) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87it6iwqdi.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019569913 5557 127.0.0.1 (23 Apr 2002 13:51:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:51:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?= , Terje Bless , xemacs-design@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 1700i1-0001RW-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:51:53 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1700jE-0004iG-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:53:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1700hr-0005hJ-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:51:43 -0400 Original-Received: from is.elta.co.il ([199.203.121.2]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1700gd-0005YE-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:50:27 -0400 Original-Received: from is (is [199.203.121.2]) by is.elta.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA28130; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:48:46 +0300 (IDT) X-Sender: eliz@is Original-To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" In-Reply-To: <87it6iwqdi.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3109 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3109 On 23 Apr 2002, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >>>>> "Kai" =3D=3D Kai Gro=DFjohann = writes: >=20 > Kai> I think Eli is sympathizing with Terje. Does "refuse" > Kai> perhaps convey a stronger meaning to a native English speaker > Kai> than I thought at first? >=20 > Hm. That hadn't occurred to me. "Refuse to learn" in my dialect is > quite a strong condemnation I used ``refuse to learn'' because Terje literally said so in his message. = =20 Since it was (a kind of) a quote, I didn't consider it rude or offensive. It wasn't a condemnation. > My apologies, Eli, if I've gotten the connotations you intend quite > opposite. No sweat, misunderstandings happen all the time. > Be that as it may, Eli is clearly arguing that the benefits to > learning more about Emacs IHHO greatly outweigh the barriers, enough > so that he's willing to contest Terje's (thought-out) opinion. Well, yes and no. Terje seemmed to say that he didn't want to read the=20 manual, period. Not even a single section, not even when in bad need of=20 some specific information. That sounds extreme to me: if there's a way=20 of getting quickly to the necessary info, why should someone refuse to do= =20 that on purpose? > Furthermore, Eli implies that the cost of reducing the barriers is > quite high (elsewhere in the thread). I guess this depends on your definition of ``quite high''. In general,=20 work on documentation requires a large effort, even just to keep the=20 docs up-to-date. It might, for example, tie up one or two dedicated=20 volunteers full time. Significant improvements in the documentation=20 system of the type suggested in this thread will probably need more=20 effort, IMO. But that doesn't mean I object to such changes, just that I think people=20 should be aware of the pitfals.