From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Date: 22 Apr 2002 00:19:29 +0900 Organization: The XEmacs Project Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <3CC23021.5090506@cs.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019402504 28882 127.0.0.1 (21 Apr 2002 15:21:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Hrvoje Niksic , Terje Bless , Eli Zaretskii , jas@extundo.com, bradym@balestra.org, xemacs-design@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16zJ9s-0007Vj-00 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:21:44 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16zJA8-0000rS-00 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:22:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16zJ9h-00014X-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:21:33 -0400 Original-Received: from tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.98.109]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16zJ8Y-0000mo-00 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from steve by tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 16zJ7m-0002t0-00; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 00:19:34 +0900 Original-To: Michael Toomim In-Reply-To: <3CC23021.5090506@cs.berkeley.edu> Original-Lines: 37 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.51 (Python 2.1.3 on Linux/i686) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:2937 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:2937 >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Toomim writes: Michael> Wait.. isn't this the whole point of this thread? I Michael> thought this was about figuring out what what could be Michael> done to XEmacs to make it more mainstream -- to make it Michael> usable to those who haven't been assimilated? No, it's not. That's part of the point, but Ben enunciated the other part (on xemacs-design, very early on)---helping Emacs to assimilate more of those who could enjoy a mutually beneficial relationship with Emacs. To me, that's the important point ("here, little boy, wouldn't you like a nice grape-flavor isearch?") I grant that I'm probably in a minority here, but please recognize my point of view. Michael> In my mind, the point behind this "the future of XEmacs" Michael> idea is to figure out how to generate a version (or Michael> dialect) of XEmacs that gives mainstream users access to Michael> the really cool functionality that XEmacs has to offer. I think a lot of it would be easier to add to other editors. Assuming they're open source, of course. Michael> If we don't think that XEmacs can ever "fill the gap"; Michael> that it can ever be useful to a user who isn't willing or Michael> prepared to go through the hazing ritual, then why are we Michael> even talking about this at all? Besides the developer recruitment issue, many "modern UI concepts" don't deserve that condescending epithet at all---they really are useful! We want them in our favorite editor. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.