From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Date: 21 Apr 2002 12:46:16 +0900 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <7263-Sat20Apr2002145929+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il> <3CC1BEB9.9020104@cs.berkeley.edu> <15553.49507.745094.604981@ice.wonderworks.com> <3CC230D1.2040106@cs.berkeley.edu> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019360907 29142 127.0.0.1 (21 Apr 2002 03:48:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 03:48:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kyle Jones , Eli Zaretskii , link@pobox.com, bradym@balestra.org, xemacs-design@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16z8Kx-0007Zv-00 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 05:48:27 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16z8Kz-0000em-00 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 05:48:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16z8Ki-00011I-00; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:48:12 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp01.fields.gol.com ([203.216.5.131]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16z8J2-0000zX-00; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:46:29 -0400 Original-Received: from tc-2-200.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.25.200] helo=tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp) by smtp01.fields.gol.com with esmtp (Magnetic Fields) id 16z8J0-0006tZ-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:46:26 +0900 Original-Received: by tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5332B307E; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:46:16 +0900 (JST) Original-To: Michael Toomim System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <3CC230D1.2040106@cs.berkeley.edu> Original-Lines: 29 X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:2902 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:2902 Michael Toomim writes: > As was discussed in previous posts, the point isn't to force a new UI > onto old users, but to provide it as an option -- either a run-time > option or a branch. > Old users will have the same interface they > always had, unless the decide to try out the new UI. Changing such basic terms as `buffer' seems like it could only be done optionally if it were done at a very superficial level -- e.g., only menu entries and prompts. However, this would make things _more_ confusing for users who decide to move beyond the menus, and try to learn more about emacs' more advanced features. For instance, the menu might say `Switch to Document',n but if they tried out M-x, they'd have to type `Mx-x switch-to-buffer'. One of emacs' great strengths (in my opinion) is the ease with which you can move from simple tasks to more advanced ones -- not because there's a super-easy GUI, but because you can make this move in very small steps (use menus -> use keybindings -> use M-x -> write simple lisp expressions to bind keys -> write simple lisp functions -> write operating systems...). Any change that makes this appreciably harder seems like a Very Bad Idea. -Miles -- o The existentialist, not having a pillow, goes everywhere with the book by Sullivan, _I am going to spit on your graves_.