Re: My resignation from Emacs development

[Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net>]

Alan,

On 11/22/24 04:57, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

>> If calling someone a "monster" is not ad hominem, I don't know what is.
> 
> There's a lot of misunderstanding on the net about what ad hominem means.
> It means critisizing something BECAUSE of who wrote/said/did it.  I have
> not done this at all, here.  I am critisizing what Stefan has done,
> fairly and squarely, and the (lack of) reaction from the various
> maintainers.

A common definition of "ad hominem" is:

   appealing to personal considerations (rather than to fact
     or reason)

I think that calling someone a "monster" fits that definition. 
Regardless, calling Stefan, or anyone else here, a "monster" is not civil.

> If anything, it is Eli, Stefan K, and Andrea who are guilty of a sort of
> "ad hominem defence".  None of them appeared seriously to have considered
> what I have said about Stefan M and the running of the Emacs project.
> They have defended his action because they were HIS actions.

That is your characterization of their reasoning.

> If I am attacking Stefan, it is because of what he has done.  If you were
> being serious, you would analyse my main gripes about Stefan - that he
> makes big changes to Emacs without prior discussion on emacs-devel, and
> that he is discourteous on mailing lists - and point out where I am
> mistaken.  I posted five anecdotes yesterday in my post to Stefan K.  You
> could have challenged these in detail, possibly, the three current
> maintainers certainly could have done.  None of you have done so.

I am being quite serious, but it is not my responsibility to analyze and 
judge your technical disagreements with anyone, especially regarding 
issues I have not been involved with.  I am intentionally not commenting 
on them, because they are beside the point, which is your public 
behavior toward Stefan.

>> I don't find that characterization of this mailing list to be accurate
>> at all.  There is infrequent, but consistently repellent content from
>> certain participants; thankfully, it is usually not repaid in kind;
>> occasionally it draws a tame chastisement.  It's to be expected, when
>> you consider the variety of backgrounds present, combined with strong
>> personalities and enthusiastic participation.  There are far, far worse
>> forums to be found.
> 
> Again, you don't address my point, here.  That was that the extreme
> delicacy in the Emacs mailing lists is exaggerated and conter-productive.

I addressed it: I don't find your characterization to be accurate.  As I 
described, this list is remarkably tolerant of uncivil words, and any 
corrections are gentle.

>> But it is not okay for you to blame Stefan for your decision to leave.
> 
> It is Stefan's actions, both in the past and no doubt on-going, that have
> had negative effects on me, and his failure to adhere to the standards
> that other contributors do.

Do you think that any of your actions have had negative effects on him? 
On anyone else?  Or is he, in your eyes, the only guilty party?

Whose responsibility is it to judge whether he adheres to the project's 
standards?

> Stefan will have learned, one way or another, of this thread.  He is
> quite capable of responding, himself.  I doubt he will.

Generally, the subject of comments like yours would be wise to remain 
silent.  He needn't defend himself here--we know him.

> There is no question of defamation.  What I have written is true and
> verifiable, or fair comment at the very least.  You have faied to address
> the substatntive points I've made.  I wonder why you posted.
What you have written is your characterization of his actions and 
motivation.  As has been made clear, your opinion is not universally 
shared.

You have made several very unfair comments about him.  These are what 
I'm addressing, and I do so because you have made them publicly, and 
repeatedly.  I offer no opinion on the technical matters, because that 
is not my responsibility here; and because this is not a technical 
discussion, despite your framing it as one.

--Adam