From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: ASCII-only startup message? Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:18:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <567ECD8C.1070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360zlhy7x.fsf@gnu.org> <567EE043.9020109@cs.ucla.edu> <83y4chgh5q.fsf@gnu.org> <567EED47.1090700@cs.ucla.edu> <83si2pgci8.fsf@gnu.org> <567F22B1.9040702@cs.ucla.edu> <83poxsh7xv.fsf@gnu.org> <5682C34A.30608@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451413132 27608 80.91.229.3 (29 Dec 2015 18:18:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:18:52 +0000 (UTC) To: Paul Eggert , Emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 29 19:18:40 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyr1-0005CL-Dt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:18:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49666 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyr0-00020z-Rb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:18:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39623) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyqo-0001zo-MI for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:18:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyqj-00076g-M1 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:18:26 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:33136) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyqj-00076b-Fh for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:18:21 -0500 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tBTIIDEB016417 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:18:14 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tBTIIDj5012090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:18:13 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tBTIIDvC010498; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:18:13 GMT In-Reply-To: <5682C34A.30608@cs.ucla.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197125 Archived-At: > > b. How much work would it be to revert the whole thing and > > go back to using `foo' for symbol quoting? >=20 > It would take quite a bit of work to do that. The lesson - the moral of the story - is that Emacs Dev should not have let you shepherd Emacs off the cliff so precipitously. "Easy does it" should have been the approach. And with continual interaction with, and feedback from, users, as any changes were introduced. There _was_ some pushback from users (who follow emacs-devel) as you went full-steam ahead. But we were explicitly told to hold off; that this was all just an "experiment"; and that we could express ourselves afterward. Well,... Now the "experiment" is a fait accompli. Congratulations. Emacs Dev has a lesson to learn here, however (IMHO). > Emacs has been lagging behind. This is precisely the mantra that lured Emacs Dev into giving you the green light, Paul, or at least into taking an attitude of let's-wait-and-see-how-the-experiment-goes. Going, going, gone. But still going. Out with the old! In with the new! Follow me, forward and onward...