From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:29:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <86frnkpujt.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28618"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 21 17:30:44 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tEA4p-0007D7-VZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 17:30:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEA4E-0003bA-9b; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 11:30:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEA4C-0003Zk-Oi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 11:30:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEA4B-0002ZE-4Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 11:30:04 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 63475 invoked by uid 3782); 21 Nov 2024 17:29:45 +0100 Original-Received: from muc.de (p4fe1590e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.89.14]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 17:29:45 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 22243 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Nov 2024 16:29:44 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86frnkpujt.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325551 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 15:48:06 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 13:01:52 +0000 > > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > I've had continual trouble over the last ~20 years with what Stefan has > > done, and how he's done it. Nobody else even comes close. > I can only say that I completely disagree with your unfavorable (to > say the least) description of Stefan's conduct here, and regret and am > very sorry that you somehow came to these conclusions, which IMO are > very wrong. The five anecdotes I outlined in detail in my post to Stefan K happened as I described. How can one avoid the conclusion I came to? In the second of these (about Stefan M's change of interpreted functions to opaque atoms) Richard posted to the thread five times. In one of these posts he described the proposed change as "perverse". Stefan ignored all five of Richard's posts, and bulldozered his change through anyway. Richard was unhappy about the change, and you were uncertain about it, to say the least. Stefan ignored both of you (as well as being discourteous to me) and just ploughed ahead. What does all this say about Stefan Monnier? It was Stefan's commit after that thread, and the fact that nothing was done about it, that caused me finally to lose enthusiasm for the Emacs project. Since then, I've kept going, basically by inertia and habit. If you want to look at this thread again, it starts with this post: From: Stefan Monnier To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Subject: Distinguishing `consp` and `functionp` Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 18:15:48 -0500 .. One way or another, Stefan will have become aware of this thread. He's at liberty to answer and contest all the points I've made about him. I doubt he will do so. Anyhow, I'm leaving. I think I've now made it abundantly clear _why_ I'm leaving. I still wish Emacs a successful future. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).