From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: ndame Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:28:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: ndame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="129587"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers To: =?UTF-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 25 18:29:24 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jSNgC-000XbB-1z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 18:29:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40592 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSNgB-0006tD-3h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 12:29:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58292) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSNfi-0006Ls-M8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 12:28:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSNfh-0002i7-LW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 12:28:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.132]:29291) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSNfg-0002UY-Ry for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 12:28:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1587832130; bh=eTg8y/vIS77CRyHpaubHOjHd/30JNqkpnVgOj7v8Vj8=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=VMBAqhT/URRF41hkhj35+nZUnVVW3wmwitT3KSvbt9a9LForuNs8+0e8aSeJoKV0L zdd2x2hpa/M5MxLvIPbGI45uLPkWVwlMJTlcLavahzySwHF7ZIJN85Z2R9xZjzG9RW EaAuzNnGM1rli4nbbROlYYY0t7ctCHNTUHzlr4lE= In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.132; envelope-from=ndame@protonmail.com; helo=mail-40132.protonmail.ch X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/25 12:28:50 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 185.70.40.132 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247797 Archived-At: > > > Is there such a thing? Or does learning emacs mostly pay off > > for the advanced user? I can't think of a feature right know where > > emacs shines for the casual user. > > Org mode, magit, helm comes to my mind. Orgmode is included, but helm and magit are in melpa. Emacs should feature packages which are accessible for the new user without tinkering. Though, if the newbie.el which can setup a beginner friendly environment if emacs is started without config is allowed to add melpa to the package list and install helm/magit automatically then it's ok, because then it is instantly available for the new user. BTW, helm. Maybe the veterans don't recognize it, but the default emacs com= pletion is extremely clunky, especially if one comes from other modern tools. A user accustomed to modern tools expects something like this: https://resources.jetbrains.com/help/img/idea/2020.1/find_action_dialog.png A vertical list which is instantly filtered as you type. Compared to this the default completion is hoplessly old fashioned with its multicolumn text display and having to press for TAB for the results. Icomplete is a step in the right direction. The above mentioned newbie.el should set it up instead of the default completion. Though, it's a single line displaying completions, a vertical display could be better, especially if the entries are longer. And someone did it already: https://github.com/oantolin/icomplete-vertical Icomplete-vertical should be adopted into the core as an option and this is how completion should be set up for newbies. It's still not as good looking as the one on my first link, but it's almost there. It's vertical, it gives you instant results, so it's much closer to completion provided by modern tools (Idea, VsCode, etc.) than the default one.