From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Elisp threading macros Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 06:45:03 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87v7zksety.fsf@posteo.net> <87mskws9sz.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="54uffwrnni6KXOMa" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12831"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 29 06:45:48 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sjX2Z-000375-3I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2024 06:45:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sjX20-0007V4-Nk; Thu, 29 Aug 2024 00:45:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sjX1y-0007Ut-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2024 00:45:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sjX1w-0008N2-Ur for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2024 00:45:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=nYNWsEjtGT38m72fNxrc1xnIzZqKThraZDZYkBMgIkI=; b=QJbSchYc4AkCRAvbnjdLpCoWor W5aSW7O/jkFBrOA3Cx4+58X8uvCzMoeEW9/+qSaDPmbQxFu2yozTqKSlWdxT5JvEVkcs15QVO9nHY 58tgE7hk9LfBr6JVe8e5kL2jmdPkyG+HezvRm2OYG8jZkW0Ww0EzdQ07dRfVLhEdebhuYICwx76Cy oV8UkcbRpTiTZD2W7Bh45SdbOIbKO2ZPEvwJiGWR4+Whqwqcrs2Y5p0atRNpd2JuGy+pYQRJLLXHq hxQChdu8PXfmAnXFLhVnjVxjjmwrbZvt57ZMSEKIX8olOgS7nF/S1aeC/nhKLCws/n0fYJsmroMxI ou7yGiLQ==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sjX1r-00009Q-MT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2024 06:45:03 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87mskws9sz.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323168 Archived-At: --54uffwrnni6KXOMa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 07:54:04PM +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote: [...] > Generally this seems like a cultural clash between traditional Lisps and > newer languages like Clojure that derive some inspired from Lisps, but > have intentionally broken with the existing "Lisp tradition". > Backporting concepts like these is certainly technically feasible, but > it feels forced and foreign for people like me who don't work with > Closure or related languages. I think this is a very important point. Emacs Lisp (any language) isn't "just" a set of rules, but a whole set of applications and a community (or perhaps a set of interconnected communities) [0]. Each time someone with big enthusiasm comes along and "hey, let's change everything, this looks so much better", things tend to degrade into strange identity wars. On the one hand, you can't just change the whole community "just like that": people gravitate towards languages for reasons (I must admit I cringe myself when I see those threaded macros, but then, my excursions into those newer functional languages have never really worked). Most people are here because they like things as they are. On the other hand, for my taste at least, the reactions (my [1] reaction, at that!) to those ideas feels sometimes more hostile than necessary. I'd like (for myself!) to have better answers to that. Cheers [0] And a means of communication. And of identification. And... [1] That's why I often shut up in those cases. But hostile silence is hostile, too. Oh, well. --=20 t --54uffwrnni6KXOMa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZs/8yAAKCRAFyCz1etHa RhYrAJ4z92zBihjsoVH2JTcGAYjz4zsVJQCcDqOnHcCNIm8ZWQK8KIlz02wPtS8= =jbF3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --54uffwrnni6KXOMa--