From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: recursion to iteration macro Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 06:40:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: <871q813mgg.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87le69e812.fsf@posteo.net> <87h6gx1cdb.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87edc11baw.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QCLfVWgTGK7pSfAQ" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23872"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 26 06:41:09 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rozYb-000619-8p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 06:41:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rozXg-0001KZ-Lf; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 01:40:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rozXc-0001KK-3S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 01:40:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rozXa-0000pL-13; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 01:40:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject :Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=YHHN+rWc1kgfLqViohavLueD+DCz0cUDfaSAXqChXYw=; b=e8A3jjr+cu+GY086tMan72Pgn2 Y5kxxgliLVog6xwq+aIplEaHUf5+QY4EoAukbHC1QUg0A/H4aWlFkQZmGNWVn/3+FpvU17/cpxL/5 66CZJIJSHxuaiGWnx9mqvCBR2SjVlERGNl/MUblj+kfsGVM2RNCJOJ2yzPUg9r8i8OTEX3m2qyGu9 tZ2tbnj7aS1ZXToPb7Mu+JShfrveoBEj4ynGPxCeJdIFK310+0C3g7pWRZnEYurD3vohlpwu0J2wk AmGFEoTo3jIszyHmCrCbgneR2RWCIP7E/3DDIGRe6hyhv/zci60rLfOZBjjebUrdDEcDFEXjUZxjg RnTxNriQ==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rozXV-0007C6-C3; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 06:40:01 +0100 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:317293 Archived-At: --QCLfVWgTGK7pSfAQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 07:38:25PM -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >=20 > Tail -recursion without deepening the stack is a convenience, > and it may seem conceptually trivial, but in implementation > it will ba a substantial redesign. I think it would use up > a lot of developers time, and we are better off spending that > time on things that will helkp Emacs _users_ rather tan > only programmers. I wasn't proposing to change Emacs Lisp in this direction. I do agree with you that there are far more interesting targets for Emacs lisp than full tail recursion. Every language has a place, and this is not only the language architecture itself, but the uses it is being put to and, most importantly, the group of people who use it. My intention was rather to inform the discussion. The OP was asking about full tail recursion, and my answer was that, yes, it has been done, and pointers to learn how it works and what properties it has. 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