From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 13:36:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <8a7362da-3cc4-221c-7b8a-a9918677adff@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34476"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Dmitry Gutov , Gerd =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llmann?= , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Bidar , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 09 14:37:14 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r15De-0008lA-I9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 14:37:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r15Cq-0001NP-RQ; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 08:36:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r15Cn-0001NE-Nx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 08:36:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r15Ck-00079a-1e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 08:36:20 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 69812 invoked by uid 3782); 9 Nov 2023 14:36:12 +0100 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.114]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 14:36:12 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 4682 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Nov 2023 13:36:11 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312406 Archived-At: Hello, João. On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 12:40:24 +0000, João Távora wrote: > On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Dmitry Gutov wrote: > > Improving cl-lib's documentation would be a welcome effort. > For sure, and not a hard one as well, as all those functions and > macros are pretty good, often flawless emulations of CL functions that > are impeccably documented in > http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/ > Which is of free access (though not of a compatible license, I > think). But if people can point to the 5 most confusing functions > they think are poorly documented, I volunteer to rewrite the > docstrings for them. How much are you prepared to do? I don't have a list of the _most_ confusing doc strings, there are too many to chose from. But starting at the start of cl-macs.el, we have: (i) cl--compiler-macro-list*; completely undocumented. (ii) cl--simple-expr-p: Talks about "side effects", but not what they are side effects of. Doesn't describe it's parameters or return value. It's unclear what it is that "executes quickly". (iii) cl--expr-contains: It's unclear what X and Y are, and what "refers to" means. (iv) cl--expr-contains-any; completely undocumented. (v) cl--expr-depends-p: It's unclear what X and Y are, though Y appears to be some sort of container of symbols. It's unclear what sort of "dependency" the function handles, or what "may" means in the context. There are many more. > João -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).