From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Non-ASCII characters in Info files produced by Texinfo 7.1 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 20:49:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83o7gpm9uy.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30440"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 23 22:51:12 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qv1tI-0007ed-Id for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 22:51:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qv1sW-0008EN-FI; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:50:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qv1sK-0008CO-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:50:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qv1sG-0004Fv-UC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:50:11 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 55680 invoked by uid 3782); 23 Oct 2023 22:49:55 +0200 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953a208.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.162.8]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 22:49:54 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 4671 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Oct 2023 20:49:53 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83o7gpm9uy.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311732 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 22:12:21 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Texinfo 7.1, released a few days ago, changed the behavior wrt > characters produced from quotes, apostrophes and en- and em-dashes: by > default, it now produces the ASCII equivalents. So, for example, "--" > in the Texinfo source remains "--" in the produced Info file, where > previous versions would produce a real en-dash '–'. > The main reason for this change is that it makes it easier to grep the > Info files. > To revert to previous behavior, we will need to pass an optional > argument to the makeinfo command in our Makefile's. But before I make > this change, I would like to know if people here want the new behavior > or the old one. Thanks for raising this issue on the mailing list. > For those who want the read about the reasons for this change in > behavior, here are the links: > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-patches/2022-12/msg00000.html > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-patches/2022-12/msg00019.html > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-texinfo/2023-06/msg00000.html > What do people think about this? I have always disliked the replacement of ASCII characters by non-ASCII Unicode punctuation in working documents; it makes those documents less easy to search, whether by grep or by C-s, or whatever, and these characters are displayed in an obtrusive face. Quite likely, there will also be people who dislike the use of ASCII for these purposes. So I would vote for either texinfo's new default of using ASCII quotes, etc., or having a configuration option to set/unset the command line option to texinfo. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).