From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:54:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38256"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 23 14:55:34 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1quuSz-0009j0-Lc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:55:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quuSD-0001am-6s; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 08:54:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quuSA-0001Yq-9M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 08:54:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quuS7-0005VL-HV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 08:54:42 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 1082 invoked by uid 3782); 23 Oct 2023 14:54:35 +0200 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953a208.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.162.8]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:54:34 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 14135 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Oct 2023 12:54:33 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311710 Archived-At: Hello, Richard. On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 22:11:31 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > So it would appear there are no cl- functions used in the dumped .el > > files which would cause cl-lib to be loaded. > That is good news. Thanks for studying this. > Nonetheless, we do have some problems. For instance, the debugger > should not load cl-lib. I would agree, but edebug _does_ load cl-lib. So does desktop, as I've already pointed out. Even calling M-: (backtrace) causes cl-lib to get loaded. All of these, and likely many others, would take a lot of work to fix. It seems that while emacs -Q doesn't itself load cl-lib, there is now very little, if anything, one can do in Emacs which doesn't load this library. I find this regrettable, but can't see there's much to be done about it. > -- > Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).