From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:38:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5scs9pu.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkcrrebj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29440"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 21 22:39:45 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1quIl7-0007UV-5a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 22:39:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quIkK-0005eU-Ey; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:38:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quIk8-0005XV-Me for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:38:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quIk5-0005I4-Bt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:38:43 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 74469 invoked by uid 3782); 21 Oct 2023 22:38:35 +0200 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953a465.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.164.101]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 22:38:34 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 32383 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Oct 2023 20:38:31 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83bkcrrebj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311663 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 22:00:16 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 17:53:31 +0000 > > Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > Just as a matter of interest, what loads cl-lib in my .emacs is > > desktop.el. It does this for a single call to cl-list* which could be > > seen as rather contrived. > > So any Emacs session loading desktop will also be loading cl-lib; that's > > virtually any Emacs session in which real work will be getting done, I > > think. > > It would be fairly easy to remove cl-lib from desktop.el. Or, on the > > other hand, we could just as well preload cl-lib, and save an > > unmeasurable amount of loading time at each Emacs startup. > No, we will not preload cl-lib. But if some package loads cl-lib for > a small number of functions that can be easily replaced with > non-cl-lib functions, patches to make such packages leaner and meaner > will be welcome. Apologies, I was mistaken, it's not quite so simple. desktop.el itself could have its cl-lib dependency easily removed, but it loads frameset.el, the bit of desktop that saves frame layouts. frameset.el makes moderately heavy use of cl-lib, including at least two externally visible cl-defun's where keyword parameters are used. It would be a lot of work to replace cl-lib in this file, and doing this might be viewed as ungenerous towards its author, Juanma Barranquero. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).