From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 05:27:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34838"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 19 07:28:07 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qtLZm-0008rE-MG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 07:28:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtLZ7-000894-PI; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 01:27:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtLZ6-00088o-9a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 01:27:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtLZ3-0000SZ-56 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 01:27:24 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 73292 invoked by uid 3782); 19 Oct 2023 07:27:05 +0200 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953a45c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.164.92]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 07:27:04 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 3414 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Oct 2023 05:27:03 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311573 Archived-At: Hello, Richard. On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 21:28:41 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I've changed the subject line to match what we are talking about. > > 226 files, or 14%, use cl-lib at run time. > These cases may be more or less problematical, but not necessarily > equally so. > Which of those files are usually loaded when you start Emacs with > no arguments? Those we should certainly fix. With the following command, started from the lisp directory: $ sed 's/^[^;]*(load "\(.*\)".*$/\1.el/; s/\.el\.el/.el/; t; d' loadup.el | \ sort | xargs grep -c "^[^;]*(cl-" | sed '/:0/d' , I get the following files, with counts of '(cl-' usages: abbrev.el:2 dnd.el:4 emacs-lisp/byte-run.el:1 emacs-lisp/cconv.el:15 emacs-lisp/cl-generic.el:178 emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el:45 emacs-lisp/eldoc.el:12 emacs-lisp/lisp-mode.el:14 emacs-lisp/nadvice.el:7 emacs-lisp/oclosure.el:31 emacs-lisp/seq.el:51 emacs-lisp/shorthands.el:1 emacs-lisp/syntax.el:6 emacs-lisp/tabulated-list.el:1 emacs-lisp/timer.el:1 font-lock.el:1 frame.el:6 international/mule-cmds.el:4 international/ucs-normalize.el:3 isearch.el:3 ldefs-boot.el:3 loaddefs.el:3 minibuffer.el:12 progmodes/elisp-mode.el:23 progmodes/prog-mode.el:1 register.el:23 replace.el:1 select.el:6 simple.el:9 startup.el:3 subr.el:1 tab-bar.el:4 term/android-win.el:7 term/haiku-win.el:11 term/ns-win.el:9 term/pc-win.el:7 term/pgtk-win.el:9 term/w32-win.el:12 term/x-win.el:8 uniquify.el:2 vc/vc-hooks.el:1 .. That's a total of 541 occurrences, just in the files that get dumped with the Emacs binary. I fear that that's the way things will stay, because it would be too much work to fix. But more because there are enough contributors who think that cl-lib is just an ordinary part of Emacs to be used freely without restraint. I am not among this group of contributors. > -- > Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).