From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2024 17:37:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <169c6564-4722-4338-a049-5f8f3ce69394@alphapapa.net> <86ldxbofgw.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12330"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: enometh@meer.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 26 18:38:19 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tFzVz-00034q-0Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2024 18:38:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tFzVE-0000I0-Cl; Tue, 26 Nov 2024 12:37:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tFzV9-0000He-JO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2024 12:37:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tFzV2-0000SU-Jq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2024 12:37:23 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 52299 invoked by uid 3782); 26 Nov 2024 18:37:08 +0100 Original-Received: from muc.de (p4fe151d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.81.213]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Nov 2024 18:37:08 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 13194 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Nov 2024 17:37:08 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325717 Archived-At: Hello, Richard. On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 23:28:14 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > If we explicitly establish that normal practice of Emacs development > is to to discuss every significant feature change or redesign on > emacs-devel -- as I have advcated before -- would you be willing to > rejoin Emacs development? I think that's been the normal practice in Emacs for just about ever. My gripe is specifically with Stefan Monnier, who has failed to follow this practice on quite a few occasions over the years, as I have catalogued in some detail in this thread. Also, when promoting his own changes, Stefan has frequently answered reasonable questions with "politicians' answers" - evasive non-answers. The latest such post was his post in this thread, where he somehow managed to avoid addressing my criticisms of his past behaviour. In particular, he failed to admit any wrongdoing, and failed to give any undertakings about the future. Also, the current three maintainers have all explicitly said they see no problem with Stefan's behaviour here. If I were to rejoin the Emacs project (assuming I'd be welcome, which might not be the case after all I've written), nothing would have changed. All the unpleasantness in this thread would have been for nothing. And I'd likely continue to get angry about Stefan in the future. The immediate problem - the use of CC Mode's symbols to mean other things - has no available compromise. Eli and I failed to reach such a compromise after extensive exchanges, both on emacs-devel and in private email. So it doesn't look like I'll be rejoining the Emacs project any time soon. Sorry. > -- > Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).